Ostheer proposal n° 02854

[Aouch]

The topic says it all, it's yet another Ostheer proposal! (Hell, that's nearly a rhyme!  )

This concept is more or less based on Lord Rommel's with some changes and adds.
You can say it's a combination of the best single ideas I've seen, resulting in a Red Army/Commonwealth-Mix with German units.

The Ostheer

Concept
As already mentioned you can compare this Ostheer with the Commonwealth and Red Army. There're various reasons to do so, to mention just a few, e.g. the OH doesn't have any HMG but instead a better mortar, furthermore no global veterancy, tough infantry (without mobility-penalty!) and effective field artillery in form of the LeFH 18. It's also worth to mention their mobile field-HQ-truck.
In return, the OH can't use all of their units at the same time but rather have to concentrate on a special type (→ Unit pools).

Unit pools
Most base structures of the Ostheer can't produce units until they're "upgraded" with one unit pool. In order to do so, you've to invest resources and time in the appropiate upgrade.
There're two unit pools for each of those buildings.
The building upgrade can allways be changed (assumed you've enough resources), however only one unit pool can be used at the same time.

Veterancy
(Based on Herostrato's veterancy suggestion.)
Note: Not all OH-units are able to gain veterancy!
Ostheer-Veterancy doesn't increase the HP or accuracy of the unit but rather allowing the player to choose an upgrade resulting in making the unit "stronger" but in a more special way.
Therefore, veterancy allows the player to indiviual upgrade his battle-hardened unit.
Both infantry and tanks can achieve a max of three states of veterancy. The infantry-veterancy differs from unit to unit while tanks all share the same veterancy-type:
(Tanks which can gain veterancy are: PzKpfW. III, StuG III, PzKpfW. IV, JgdPz. IV, "Panther", "Tiger", "Elefant" and "Brummbär")

• Vet I - Tank Commander (Increases sight. OH tanks don't have a turret-top-MG, except StuG III.)
• Vet II - "Use Nebelkerzen" (Foggrenades are fired upon the tank) OR "Max Speed" (Tank drives noticeable faster for a short period of time.)
• Vet III - Sideskirts ("Elefant": Hull-MG, "Tiger": "Selfrepair") OR "Stationary Firebase" (driver helps reloading the main gun, resulting in a higher RoF but the tank is immobilized)

Reward Units
The Ostheer also offers Reward Units like the vCoH-factions. They're unlocked by successfully completing the campaigns.

• LT vz 38 - (Replaces PzKpfW. III) This czech tank was after the invasion of Czechoslovakia adopted by the German Army under the desination "PzKpfW. 38(t)" and also given to its eastern allies like Romania and Bulgaria. [300mp 45f 6p] X
• JgdPz. IV - (Replaces PzKpfW. IV) Effective tank-destroyer based on the Panzer IV and armed with the 7.5 cm PaK 39 L/48. [350mp 80f 8p] ✔
• StuPz. IV "Brummbär" - (Replaces leFH 18 18/40) Armored artillery unit with short range. Capable to penetrate armour to a certain extend. [500mp 75f 10p] ✔

Captured weapons - Beutewaffen
The Ostheer isn't able to use heavy weapons of the Red Army or recrew own equipment.
Maybe later in the war, when the Oberkommando has figured out how to pick them up, German soldiers will be able to use the soviet crap to defeat the communists with their own weapons. (Meaning that as long as the Developers haven't fixed the picking-up and recrewing bug for new factions, the Ostheer can't do so.)

Artillery tractor - Artillerieschlepper
Heavy cannons (FlaK C/36, PaK 40, LeFH 18) of the Ostheer can be attached to artillery tractors (RSO, SdKfz. 251). They're now being carried by the tractors and therefore quicker to move.
Once uncuppled, the guns are ready for combat.

Sectorprotection - Sektorensicherung
The Ostheer secures resources by dominance: The more soldiers are in a territory, the more resources will be produced. Of course there is a limit, due to balance-reasons.
This is mainly a tribute to the Partisans, because it was easier to sabotage the supply-lines when the Germans weren't represented in this place.

Starting unit
Since the Wehrmacht rolled up large parts of weastern USSR in the first days of war, this "Blitzkrieg"-strategy is also represented in my concept.
Therefore, the Ostheer starts with a Landserzug. This unit is powerfull (→ Vet 2 Grens!), however, this strong start is followed by a stage, where the OH is very vulnerable due to high MP and fuel costs for further units.



Units & Buildings

HQ  of the Ostheer
UNITS:

• Pioneers - 4 soldiers armed with 4x Kar98k. Abilities: Plant bursting charge (needs upgrade "Expert Pioneers"), Detect mine (needs upgrade "Expert Pioneers"), Repair. [240mp 4p] ✔
  Can build:
  
  • Mainstructures (Inf Camp → Support Camp → Heavy Camp)
  • Sandbags
  • Barbed wire
  • Czech hedgehog
• Kübelwagen - Fast recon vehicle. Unarmed. [220mp 2p] ✔
• Raupenschlepper Ost - The RSO can carry up to 6 soldiers / 1 squad. [200mp 2p] X
• Mobile HQ - This SdKfz. 11 carries all stuff with it, to build up a forward support base. Ability: Build up (Similiar to the British HQ-Trucks. When built up, it can reinforce soldiers and repair vehicles within a certain range around the SdKfz.) / Mobilize (Break down the forward camp. The halftrack is now movable.) [350mp 4p] ✔

UPGRADES:

• Expert Pioneers - Pioneers are upgraded with Frankfurt 42 Mine Detector and also have the ability to plant charges to destroy bridges and other structures. [100m]
• Armed Reconnaisance - Kübelwagen are outfitted with a MG34 machine gun. [100m]
• Men against Tanks! - Unlocks ability "Fire Panzerfaust". [150m]
• Medic Center - The HQ and the Mobile HQ are now able to heal nearby infantry units. [200m]

Infantry Camp
UNITS:

• Landserzug - (Grenadier squad) 6 soldiers armed with 6x Kar98k. Strong and deadly standard-infantry  but more expensive than WH or PE inf.
  Ability: Fire Panzerfaust (needs upgrade "Men against Tanks!"). [400mp 6p] ✔
  Veterancy:
  
  • Vet I - "Throw grenade" OR "Throw Brandflasche" (vs tanks, chance to destroy the engine)
  • Vet II - Feldwebel (One man is replaced by a Feldwebel armed with a MP40, who influences the battleperformance.)
  • Vet III - MG34 OR FmW35
• Mörser-Trupp - 4 soldiers armed with 1x 12cm GrW42, 2x Kar98k. [375mp 4p] ✔
  Veterancy:
  
  • Vet I - "Fire smoke-grenade" OR "Fire incendiary round"
  • Vet II - Recon Officer (Call in one soldier armed with Kar98k. Abilities: Camouflage, Sniper Shot)
  • Vet III - "Extented range" (mortar range increased) OR MP40 (Kar98k are replaced by MPs, so  the squad can defend its position)

Support Weapons Camp:
MOTOR POOL:

• SdKfz. 251 - Troop-carrier armed with a MG42. Can transport up to 12 soldiers / 3 squads. [220mp 20f 4p] ✔
• PzKpfW. III Ausf. F - Medium tank from the early stage of war armed with a 3.7cm KwK 36 L/46.5. Inferior to the russian T-34. [300mp 40f 6p] X

GUN POOL:

• 7.5cm PaK 40 - 4 soldiers crew a PaK 40, the standard anti-tank gun used by the Wehrmacht. This cannon can destroy T34's and also penetrate most of the heavy soviet armor. (PaK 40 can't camouflage, but does higher damage than the PaK 38.)[350mp 20f 4p] X
• 2cm FlaK 38 - 4 soldiers armed with Kar98k and crew one FlaK L/65 C/38. Ability: Abprotzen (Crew directs gun into fireposition and thus is no longer able to move the gun,  but its accuracy is clearly better) / Aufprotzen (Gun is now mobile). (The FlaK is able to fire during movement, but with low accuracy.) [300mp 20f 4p] X

Heavy Weapons Camp:
TANK POOL:

• PzKpfW. IV Ausf. H - Main battle-tank of the OH. Armed with the 7.5cm KwK 40 L/48. [420mp 70f 8p] ✔
• PzKpfW. V "Panther" - Propably the best medium tank of WWII! [600mp 100f 12p] ✔

ARTILLERY POOL:

• StuG III Ausf. G - Most produced German "tank" of the war (→ lowpriced!). The 7.5cm StuK 40 L/48 is able to penetrate the armor of the feared soviet T-34. [350mp 50f 6p] X
• leFH 18 18/40 - This 105mm howitzer is mounted on the carriage of the PaK 40. Crewed by 6 soldiers. Can only be moved by RSO and HT! Abilities: Smokegrenade (fires a salvo of smokegrenades), Direct Fire (the leFh18 fires directly on targets like a tank!). [500mp 75f 10p] X

Doctrins

Army Group North- Heeresgruppe Nord

Airforcemission - Luftwaffeneinsatz:

• Reconnaisance plane - A Fieseler Fi156 "Storch" flies over the selected area detecting enemy units in this territory. [1cp 50m]X
• Luftversorgung - An air supply plane Ju 52/3m drops two containers with ammunition, fuel and LMG34s.[2cp 200mp]
• StuKa Attack - A Ju 87 "Sturzkampfbomber" attack the targeted area/vehicle with a precision airstrike (one single heavy bomb). Very effective against enemy tanks and structures! [3cp 100m] X

Finnish Support Groups - Finnische Unterstützungskräfte

• German armament supply - Ability "Fire Panzerfaust" cost nothing for a certain amount of time. [1cp 100m]
• Finnish Jäger Troops - Call in a squad of 4 elite soldiers armed with 4x Suomi M/1931 SMGs. Ability: Fire Panzerfaust (needs upgrade "Men against Tanks!"). [3cp 400mp 4p] X
  Veterancy:
  
  • Vet I - "Throw grenade" OR "Throw Molotov" (aka "Brandflasche" → AT!)
  • Vet II - "Camouflage" (Similiar to the Stormtrooper's ability) OR "Sprint"
  • Vet III - Lahti-Saloranta M/26
• Finnish tank battlegroup - Call in one BT-42 (finnish assault gun based on captured russian BT-7 tanks) and one StuG III. [3cp 800mp 16p] X

Army Group Centre - Heeresgruppe Mitte

Tank battle - Panzerschlacht:

• Focus on armoured combat! - All newly produced tanks have now already Vet I, but in exchange the "ARTILLERY POOL" and the "GUN POOL" are getting locked. [2cp]
• Panzergranate 40 - Adds ability to tanks: Load Panzergranate 40 - For a short period of time, the damage against tanks is increased dramaticly. ]2cp]
• Heavy tank destroyer - (Schwerer Panzerjäger) Call in a heavy tankdestroyer JgdPz. "Tiger" (P) "Elefant". This tank is armed with teh 8.8cm StuK 43/1 L/71. Only one "Elefant" is allowed at the same time! [4cp 800mp 180f 14p] ✔

7th Panzer Division:

• Ghost Division - All tanks with Vet I are being camouflagged if not moving for a certain amount of time. [1cp 150m]
• Allways around! - Tanks camouflagged by the "Ghost Division"-ability (→ requires Vet I) can now also move, though not very fast, while hidden. [2cp 50m]
• PzKpfW. VI "Tiger" - Call in a heavy PzKpfW. VI "Tiger". Only one "Tiger" is allowed at the same time! [4cp 900m 200f 14p] ✔

Army Group South- Heeresgruppe Süd

Fortress groups - Festungsverbände:

• Fortresstroups - ( Festungtruppen) All units behind green cover gain additional bonus (e.g. it's harder to suppress this unit etc.). [1cp]
• Resource-exploitation - (Rohstoffausbeutung) For a short periode of time more resources are produced. However, after the boost the resource-production is temporarily decreased. [2cp 200m]
• Entrenched positions - (Befestigte Stellungen) Pioneers are now able to build heavy defences:
  
  • Trenches [2cp] ✔
  • MG-nest (British MG-Nest with German decals) [2cp 250mp] ✔
  • Anti-tank bunker (Small earth/wooden bunker with a 3.7cm PaK 36 "Heeresanklopfgerät".) [2cp 250mp] X

Eastern Satellites - Östliche Gefolgschaft:

• Knüppeldamm - All units move with maximum speed in landscape or on streets for a longer period of time. Only active in own territory! [1cp 150m]
• Croatian Volunteers - Infiltrate a squad of allied Croatian soldiers (like the FJ-infiltration). 6 soldiers armed with german and captured russian weaponry. [2cp 280mp 6p] X
• HiWis - The Croatian Volunteers are also excellent workers! They're now able to construct concrete emplacements and light defensives:
  
  • Sandbags [2cp]
  • Barbed wire [2cp]
  • First-aid Bunker (Functions like the WH-Bunker with "Aid-Station"-upgrade. Player will receive a squad of Landsers after 6 casualties have been returned to the Bunker. Can be garrisoned.) [2cp 200mp 20f] ✔
  • Ostturm [2cp 350mp 20f 6p] ✔

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

One problem: GERMAN Ostheer; no Toldi Tank or Chetniks.

And there are some point i dont understand.
- Why should i call in a Panzer 38 t at the Heeresgruppe Mitte? When i have enough EP to activate this unit i think that i will have already the possibility to build better tanks from the HQ of the Panzertruppen.

- Why do you change the recon tank Panzer II Ausf. L Luchs against the Panzer II Ausf. C.?

[Aouch]

I'll answer your questions quick:

One problem: GERMAN Ostheer; no Toldi Tank or Chetniks.
DEVs haven't really started working on the Ostheer, and some could imagine adding units from satellite states. So what's the problem? 
And there are some point i dont understand.
- Why should i call in a Panzer 38 t at the Heeresgruppe Mitte? When i have enough EP to activate this unit i think that i will have already the possibility to build better tanks from the HQ of the Panzertruppen.
Cause it's cheap.  No, I've really no idea why I've added this tank at the end of the doctrine-tree. 
- Why do you change the recon tank Panzer II Ausf. L Luchs against the Panzer II Ausf. C.?
Marder II (SdKfz. 131, that with the PaK40, not the captured russian one) is based on the PzKpfW. C. Additionally, in one thread, I think it was BurroDiablo mentioned some good points why having the C-variant instead of the L-"Luchs".

Oh, and thx very much for your concept I copied! 

[MrScruff]

@Aouch:

why you use MY model? i never say: do what you like with this screen!
..so put them out, immeditaly! SDKFZ 11

[BurroDiablo]

The majority of the models aren't even ours. We're quite capable of making our own, and I personally would feel much better if the work was our own.

[Aouch]

@MrScruff: Done, removed the links. Sorry. 
@BurroDiablo: I know that most of them aren't yours. I just added those links to give a reference how they could look like.
It's your mod and I'm just a little moron.
I've posted that concept to give you some ideas though I think you can do an Ostheer concept without the help of the community.

Sorry again for all the trouble I've caused.

[Gew00n]

Don't cry now...

[Loupblanc]

 ! Now this comes as a shock, I really thought most of
 the models were yours to start with. Sigh.

 Hmm, any chance to change the ISU152 from a JPanther
 to an AP/AE slow StuH from hell? (More of an AVRE,
 actually. Slow reload means it shouldn't it off accidentally)
 (with a longer range)

[Aouch]

@ Loupblanc: What do you want with a ISU152?
If you haven't noticed yet, this thread is about the Ostheer.
So please stop talking about your freaking ISU.

I think your way of turning every thread into a discussion about the ISU 152 really annoys everybody.

[Voop_Bakon]

I agree, we have an ISU-152, go there and discuss it. We are here to discus Ostheer Proposal #02854.

Btw, thanks for the Yugoslav mention 

[Loupblanc]

 Eh... Yugoslav mention. Well, I re-read it carefully, and
 like it, mostly. How can I say no to anything that offers
 finnish, etc, reward units? Grin. Solves problem artfully,
 very nice! / But there's a little ouch

 # Chetniks - Infiltrate a squad of allied Yoguslav partisans. (Chetniks - 4 partisans armed with german and captured russian weaponry. Lowpriced unit. Abilities: Camouflage (can't move while hiden!), Booby trap.) X

 ... Those guys fought AGAINST the germans. Not for.
 They were enemies of the Partisans, although they also
 found with them at times. Yugoslavia was a 4-5 way
 civil war! Crotians helped the germans aplenty.
 Chetniks were the royalists. Tito's (do this, do that)
 troops were the partisans. Brits supported the Chetniks
 at first, but they were afraid of doing something which
 would entice german reprisals. Tito... well, he was
 something allright. But making

 ... The Chetnik movement or the Chetniks (Serbian: Četnici, Cyrillic script: Четници) were a Serbian nationalist and royalist paramilitary organization operating in the Balkans before and during World Wars. They are mostly known for their participation in World War II, known officially as the Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland (Jugoslovenska vojska u otadžbini, Југословенска војска у отаџбини; JVUO, ЈВУО). In 1941, Yugoslavia was defeated by Germany and occupied by the Axis powers from 1941 to 1945. While initially formed as a resistance movement, they collaborated with the Axis occupation to an ever-increasing degree, eventually functioning by the end of the war as an Axis-supported militia.

 Okay, I give up, I surrender...

 Well, most of the COH stuff is circa 1943-1944+ anyhow.
 It just breaks my heart to see them turned to Axis-
 supported militia. I recall Italians were in on this as well,
 wanting to use Chetniks as cannon fodder, and ready to
 move in to disarm and finish off the chetniks as soon as
 the fighting was over.

  Yugoslavia was not a pretty place during WW2.

Post Merge: November 15, 2009, 11:57:02 PM
 ! Hey, look what I found!
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chetnik_center_Ontario.JPG
 Methinks I'll be going there sometimes soon to take pics!

Post Merge: November 16, 2009, 12:00:15 AMThe mission of our units is:

   1. The struggle for the freedom of all of our people under the scepter of His Majesty, the King Peter II;
   2. The creation of Greater Yugoslavia, and within it Greater Serbia, ethnically clean within the borders of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Srem, Banat, and Bačka;
   3. The struggle for the incorporation into our social structure of those non-liberated Slovenian territories under Italy and Germany (Trieste, Gorizia, Istria, and Carinthia), as well as Bulgaria and northern Albania with Shkodra;
   4. The cleansing of all national minorities and anti-state elements from state territory;
   5. The creation of direct common borders between Serbia and Montenegro, as well as Serbia and Slovenia by cleansing the Bosniak population from Sandžak, and the Bosniak and Croat populations from Bosnia and Herzegovina;
   6. The punishment of all Croats and Bosniaks who have mercilessly destroyed our people in these tragic days;
   7. The settlement of the areas cleansed of national minorities and anti-state elements by Serbs and Montenegrins (to be considered are poor, nationally patriotic, and honest families).

There may be no collaboration with the communists [Partisans], as they are fighting against the Dynasty and in favor of socialist revolution. Albanians, Bosniaks, and Ustaše [Croats] are to be treated in accordance with their merit for the horrendous crimes against our population, i.e. they are to be turned over to the People's Court. The Croats living on the territory under Italian occupation [Dalmatians] are to be treated based on their disposition at the given moment.
   
 ... A lot of references to ethnic cleansing here.
 I... er... mm...

 Meh?
 It all depends on the date, I guess.
 Chetniks changed sides more often than a wind
 rose (thing on farm roof showing direction of wind).

 -
 In late 2004, the National Assembly of Serbia passed a new law that equalized the rights of the former Chetnik members with those of the former Partisans, including the right to war pensions. Rights were granted on the basis that both were anti-fascist movements that fought occupiers, and this formulation has entered the law. The vote was 176 for, 24 against and 4 abstained. The Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) of Slobodan Milošević was the one voting against the decision.

  See! See! Both anti-fascist movements!
 

[Voop_Bakon]

That post is waaaaay to long

[ford_prefect]

That post is waaaaay to long

All in favor of this say I "I,I,I............................I"

[Loupblanc]

 "I,I,I............................I" !

 Could've been replaced by various digestive sounds and
 growling, hissing and spitting, but I felt the other approach
 was more instructive. Kept adding to it as I went on
 researching/reading on the topic. Sorry. I'm passionnate

[Aouch]

@ Loupblanc: You're right! However, I've just named them "Chetniks" because I've no clue who else they could be.
Any suggestions?


Oh, and please don't argue about as minor aspects of the concept as names.