The Wehrmacht in the East (Light concept)

[Aouch]

General Things

Gameplay
The Ostheer, meaning the part of the German Wehrmacht fighting in the east against Soviet Union, is mainly based on rather "light" units.
It only gives you the basic structure with infantry, light and medium tanks as well as some artillery.
While most of this inventory is superior to early enemy counterparts, the Ostheer will encounter some problems fighting their foe in a later stage of battle. With veteran-units getting lost in the head of the fight, the Ostheer has to pull out new powerful units and tactics or it gets overwhelmed by the endless red waves of the Soviet Union.

Panzers or Artillery?
The Heavy Camp of the Ostheer features two different branches of military.
Either have Panzerkampfwagen and an effective weapon against tanks or rather focus on concentrated artillery-fire from the Wespe while infantry is pushing forward, supported by assault-guns?
The decision has to be made wisely, since changing the current unit-pool is very expensive.
Idea from Lord Rommel.

Veterancy
The different units of the Ostheer gain strength and experience by fighting. Due to the notorious lack of men and material on the eastern-front, soldiers spend weeks and months under enemy fire and in combat thus making them stronger and finally feared veterans.
Every unit receives a vital upgrade or ability as Vet 1, while Vet 2 and Vet 3 enhance accuracy, suppression-resistance and other states.

Foreign Units
On the Eastern Front, not only German soldiers stand against the Soviets. Sons from various other nations fight side by side with them against Communism.
To show this in EFmod, there are some Foreign Units, which uses random role-variations to display different weapons and uniforms.

Upkeep
The war against the Soviet Union requires a constant supply with munition and fuel. Remember: Good units require even better logistics.
Compared to the other factions, the Ostheer has higher upkeep-costs.



Units & Buildings

Ost-Hauptquartier

• Foreign Pioneers - 3 soldiers from allied nations, armed with 3x M1895. Basic construction-unit. [160mp 3pop]
  Vet-Upgrade: "Frankfurt 42 Mine Detector"
• Ostgrenadiers - 4 soldiers with 4x Kar98k. [320mp 4pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Throw grenade" [25mun]
  Upgrade: "2x Schießbecher" [50mun]
• Engineers (Upgrade) - Enables Pios to build "Czech hedgehog", "barbed wire" and "sandbags". [200mp 20fuel 20mun]
  Adds Ability: "Plant Demolition Charge" [50mun]

Stabshauptquartier

• Opel Blitz command-truck - Opel Blitz 3to with standart box-body serves as reinforcement-point for infantry. Can secure resource-points for enhanced production. [300mp 30fuel 3pop]
• Opel Blitz medic-truck - Opel Blitz 3to truck which can heal infantry when set up. [200mp 20fuel 3pop]
• Offizier der Panzertruppe (Requires "Armoured Fist"-Doctrin) - A German Officer in a Kübelwagen armed with a MG34. Gives Bonus to armoured units. Only one active unit. [350mp 20fuel 5pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Maximum Speed" [25mun]
• Offizier der Artillerie (Requires "Hold Ground"-Doctrine) - One Officer and his staff of 2 soldiers armed with Luger-Pistols. Gives Bonus to artillery units. Only one active unit. [350mp 3pop]
  Vet-Ability: "sFH18 artillery-strike" [100mun]
• Offizier der Gebirgsjäger (Requires "Total Warfare"-Doctrin) - 4 Gebirgsjäger armed with Kar98k and one Officer armed with Luger-Pistol. Gives bonus to infantry. Only one active unit. [400mp 5pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Smokegrenade" [25mun]

• Support Troops - Enables the building of "Support Camp" [100fuel 100mun]
• Heavy Troops - Enables the building of "Heavy Camp" [150 fuel 150mun]
• Panzer / Artillery - Switch between "Artillery-Support" and "Panzer-Support" unit-pools. [200fuel 200mun]

Infantry Camp

• MG-Trupp - 3 soldiers armed with 1x Kar98k and 2x MG34. Offer light MG-support. [280mp 3pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Suppression Fire" [35mun]
• Panzerjäger - 3 soldiers armed with 2x Kar98k and 1x PzB39. [320mp 3pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Hafthohlladung" [75mun]
  Ability: "Ambush"
  Upgrade: "Panzerschreck" (replaces PzB39) [50mun]
• Unteroffizier (Upgrade) - Adds a Lieutenant with a MP40 to Ostgrenadiers. Gives Bonus. [200mp 20fuel 50mun]

Support Camp (Requires upgrade)

• 7.5cm IG18 - Infantry-support-gun to provide artillery-support for infantry-units. Crewsize 5. [400mp 20fuel 5pop]
  Vet-Ability: "HE-shells" (more dmg to infantry) [35mun]
• PzKpfW II Luchs - Light armored recon-vehicle armed with 2cm KwK38 and one MG34. [300mp 30fuel 5pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Maximum Speed" [25mun]
• SdKfz 251/17 - Armored halftrack with an attached 2cm FlaK38. [250mp 20fuel 5pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Maximum Speed" [25mun]

Heavy Camp (Requires upgrade)
 Panzer-Support:

• PzKpfW III - Early medium tank armed with 5cm KwK38 L/42 and two MG34. Good against light tanks and infantry. [350mp 60fuel 8pop]
  Passive Ability: "Panzergruppe" (A single Pz III moves very slow in enemy territory. It requires up to two other Pz in close proximity to re-gain normal movement-speed.)
  Vet-Upgrade: "Seitenschürzen und Abstandspanzerung" (increased health)
  Upgrade: "7.5cm KwK37 L/24" (better against infantry) [50mun]
• Marder II - Built on Pz II-chassis and fitted with a captured 7.62cm cannon this vehicle is able to deal with medium up to heavy tanks. [300mp 50fuel 8pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Thread Breaker" [35mun]
• Tungsten (Upgrade) - Pz III can now engage the T-34! [200mp 20fuel 50mun]
  Adds Ability: "Wolframkern-Munition" (better penetration for ~15sec) [35mun]

 Artillery-Support:

• StuG III - Assault-gun armed with 7.5cm StuK37 L/24 and one MG34. [350mp 60fuel 8pop]
  Passive Ability: "Cover" (StuG III functions like normal green cover to nearby infantry.)
  Vet-Ability: "Ambush" (StuG cloaks and gains bonus for first shot)
  Upgrade: "MG-Gunner" (adds a MG34 on top) [50mun]
• Wespe - Self-propelled artillery-gun based on Pz II. [500mp 50fuel 8pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Lock down" (higher range)
• StuG 40 (Upgrade) - New StuG III are armed with 7.5cm StuK40 L/48 thus turning it into a formidable tankdestroyer. Also adds "Seitenschürzen". [300mp 50fuel 100mun]

Doctrins

Armoured Fist

 Panzerdivision

• - [1CP]
• Kursk-Veterans - Every new produced tank starts with Vet II. [3CP]
• Elefant - Call in a heavy tankdestroyer. With its 8.8cm PaK43/2 L/71, there's nothing to resist the Elefant's firepower. [4CP][900mp 14pop]
  Vet-Upgrade: "Hull-MG"

 Panzergrenadierdivision

• Fast Supply - For a short period of time, every activated ability has no cool-down. [2CP][100mun]
• "Wiking" Battlegroup - Call in a Sdkfz 251 armed with one MG34 and one Panzergrenadier-squad (2x MP44 + 3x G43). [2CP][600mp 8pop]
  Vet-Upgrade (SdKfz 251): "Rear-MG"
  Vet-Ability (Pzgren): "Suppression Fire" [35mun]
• -

Hold Ground

 Stalingrad Pocket

• Sturmpioniere - 5 soldiers armed with 3x MP40 and 2x Kar98k. [2CP][600mp 5pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Throw grenade" [25mun]
  Upgrade: "2x FmW35" [75mun]
• sIG 33B - Call in a heavy assault-gun bearing a 15cm sIG33 L/11. [3CP][600mp 8pop]
  Passive Ability: "Cover" (sIG 33B functions like normal green cover to nearby infantry.)
  Vet-Ability: "Lock down" (higher rate of fire)
• Stalingrad-Veterans - Every new recruited infantry unit starts with Vet 2. [2CP]

 Fortress Group

• Fortress Troops - Infantry behind green cover receives an extra bonus for a certain amount of time. [1CP][100mun]
• Pantherturret - Enables Pioneers to build a static AT-emplacement. [3CP][500mp 40fuel 8pop]
• Mortar Bunker - Enables Pioneers to build a concrete bunker with ability to fire a mortar-barrage. Can reinforce infantry.[2CP][500mp 50fuel 14pop]

Total Warfare

 Leichte Division

• Gewaltmarsch - Increases movement speed of infantry but also decreasing health and suppression-resistance for a short period of time. [1CP][75mun]
• Mountain Infantry - Call in a squad of 3 soldiers armed with 1x (MAB38)(MP40) and 2x (Carcano M91/41)(Kar98k).
  Good on long-range. [2CP][450mp 3pop]
  Vet-Ability: "Sniper Shot" [35mun]
• - [2CP]

 Luftwaffe

• Storch - A Fieseler Fi156 circles over the selected area for a few seconds, detecting all enemy units. [2CP][50mun]
• Air transportation - Reduces recruiting time of infantry. [2CP]
• Kanonenvogel - A Ju 87 G flies two times over the selected area, inflicting serious damage to armoured vehicles with its two 3.7cm gun-pods. [2CP][100mun]

Miscellaneous

• -
• Artillery Observer - The Recon Plane drops a marking for the Artillery-troops. Every available artillery (infantry-guns, howitzers etc.) opens fire on this position, not regarding range and cool-down. [2CP][150mun]
• 10.5cm leFH18 18/40 - Enables Pioneers to build a field howitzer in a static emplacement. [2CP][500mp 50fuel 8pop]

[Werwolf]

I agree with you, the "Flamingo"/"Wanze" would be better suited as Heeresgruppe Mitte units

[Blackbishop]

I would like to have the FlPz III as an upgrade for Pz III, not as a replacement. Also i find quite interesting that your concept don't use tiger tanks, is simple but solid and looks fine. What do you think about deploying an spy unit?

[Aouch]

The FlPz III upgrade for PzKpfW III sounds OK. I like it.
Though it won't be 100% historical, because FlPz were built of the M-Ausf., it would make the Pz III a "multi-purpose"-weapon and that is exactly what I want.

Tiger tank isn't necessary in my opinion. Although everybody seems to want them "because they're a symbol for the Ostheer", I say: If you want Tiger in EF, go play WH-Blitz. If you want KöTi in EF, go play WH-Terror. If you want Panther in EF, go play WH or PE.

OH should differ from the other factions and not be a mix-up out of everybody's favourites with buildable Tiger and such stuff people suggesting in other threads.


A "spy" also seems OK, though it would fit much better for Red Army (apart from spies doesn't really fit in the whole CoH-concept). Germany hadn't many spies in other countries, because nearly nobody wanted to work with Nazis, especially in the Soviet Union they weren't very popular amongst the population, because Germans slaughtered whole villages etc.

However, I can still imagine a spy, as part of the "Foreign Division". Buildable out of HQs after researched the "Civilian Support", maybe?

[Blackbishop]

Why do you don't use mortars? Do you think Brumbar could fit in your Panzer Camp?

I didn't know about being a bug relating the starting unit for new fractions... i should be ashamed .

[HolyHappiness]

The FlPz III upgrade for PzKpfW III sounds OK. I like it.
Though it won't be 100% historical, because FlPz were built of the M-Ausf., it would make the Pz III a "multi-purpose"-weapon and that is exactly what I want.

Tiger tank isn't necessary in my opinion. Although everybody seems to want them "because they're a symbol for the Ostheer", I say: If you want Tiger in EF, go play WH-Blitz. If you want KöTi in EF, go play WH-Terror. If you want Panther in EF, go play WH or PE.

OH should differ from the other factions and not be a mix-up out of everybody's favourites with buildable Tiger and such stuff people suggesting in other threads.


A "spy" also seems OK, though it would fit much better for Red Army (apart from spies doesn't really fit in the whole CoH-concept). Germany hadn't many spies in other countries, because nearly nobody wanted to work with Nazis, especially in the Soviet Union they weren't very popular amongst the population, because Germans slaughtered whole villages etc.

However, I can still imagine a spy, as part of the "Foreign Division". Buildable out of HQs after researched the "Civilian Support", maybe?

I see where you are going with the exclusive heavy tanks per faction, however what heavy do you think should be best attributed to OH? My first thought would be the Elefant but that's me.

-Nathan

[Werwolf]

+1 for Elefant... 

[TheReaper]

It hasn't have bad ideas, in th way I thinking in the same way. I started to build up a faction, but I haven't much time working on it. Maybe it gives a few ideas:
http://myconcept.5mp.eu/web.php?a=myconcept

[Aouch]

Hehe, 'Elefant' is already part of my concept. 
Nonetheless, thanks for your positive feedback. 

About the mortars: I think it would be nice to have them and they would also fit into the concept and tactics of this Ostheer concept, but I'm againstjust copy'n'paste WH 8cm-mortar. The problem is that the real Wehrmacht didn't use anything similiar as far as I know. Except the 12cm-thingy, but that would be too "soviet" I think.

Brummbär? Hmmm, for artillery support we have the 10.5cm.
Also, it's based on Pz4 and I wanted to keep this thing out of my concept and instead focus on Pz3. Sturmhaubitze 42 is already part of the WH-vehicle-pool and StuIG33 was too rare.

Does anybody know a good replacement for PzKpfW III (reward unit), so that PlPz III could be an upgrade for Pz III instead of replacing it?

[Werwolf]

Does anybody know a good replacement for PzKpfW III (reward unit), so that PlPz III could be an upgrade for Pz III instead of replacing it?

Hmm...it seems we have run out of options, barring Beute Panzerkampfwagen ("Booty Panzers" with field modifications, like PE's Hotchkiss H35) and "interim solution" Panzerjägers forced into multiple roles. Fortunately, the Ostheer used a lot of captured foreign equipment 

Here are some suggestions with their possible German designations:
1.) Soviet lend-lease Valentine Mk. VIIA - PzKpfw. 744 Mk. VII Ausf. A(b) 
2.) Italian Carro Armato Pesante 26/40 - PzKpfw. 737 P40(i)*
3.) Hungarian 41M Turán II - PzKpfw. 743 41M Turán II(u)

or,

1.) Sd.Kfz. 164 "Nashorn"
2.) Sd.Kfz. 301 Borgward B IV Ausführung mit Raketenpanzerbüchse 54 "Wanze"

*my best bet! it'd be great if it would have Panzerschürzen and commander's cupola (increased sight radius) as field upgrades too...what do you think?

[Aouch]

Thanks for your ideas, Werwolf! I was already thinking about the Turán II, but I completly forgot the Italians. 

However both have a 75mm gun, unlocking those tanks by "5cm cannon"-upgrade in HQ would be a little bit strange, wouldn't it?

Heck, I don't really know what I should do...

On the one hand, it would be nice to have the P26/40 (with Turan II) as call-in in the 'Foreign-Division' sub-doctrin but on the other hand all call-ins and abilities there are in my opinion needed.
Also, they would perform similiar to the PzKpfW III.

What I also don't like is the T-34/76 from the Finns. They didn't used it in great numbers plus it's already part of the Red Army. But AGN needs something like a tank...

[Werwolf]

Thanks for your ideas, Werwolf! I was already thinking about the Turán II, but I completly forgot the Italians. 

However both have a 75mm gun, unlocking those tanks by "5cm cannon"-upgrade in HQ would be a little bit strange, wouldn't it?

Heck, I don't really know what I should do...

On the one hand, it would be nice to have the P26/40 (with Turan II) as call-in in the 'Foreign-Division' sub-doctrin but on the other hand all call-ins and abilities there are in my opinion needed.
Also, they would perform similiar to the PzKpfW III.

What I also don't like is the T-34/76 from the Finns. They didn't used it in great numbers plus it's already part of the Red Army. But AGN needs something like a tank...

you're welcome...

well, aside from captured Soviet vehicles, the Finns did have extensively field-modified PzKpfw. StuG III Ausf. Gs though, which were almost unrecognizable 

EDIT: as for the Turáns, let's just say that they were Turán Is originally with 40mm Škoda A17s, but were refitted with 5 cm KwK 38 L/42s and had their parts modernized and up-armored to Turán II-standard. The 5 cm would be seen as a stopgap solution, epecially since Škoda 7.5 cm stubbies were not always available. Such modifications were theoretically possible, since the sheer number of Beute Panzerkampfwagen spawned a lot of official---and unofficial modifications (remember the Hotchkiss with Wurfrahmen 40s?). Field upgrades to 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/48s from wrecked PzKpfw. IVs would have been the next logical step in order to counter the T-34...

[HolyHappiness]

Thanks for your ideas, Werwolf! I was already thinking about the Turán II, but I completly forgot the Italians. 

However both have a 75mm gun, unlocking those tanks by "5cm cannon"-upgrade in HQ would be a little bit strange, wouldn't it?

Heck, I don't really know what I should do...

On the one hand, it would be nice to have the P26/40 (with Turan II) as call-in in the 'Foreign-Division' sub-doctrin but on the other hand all call-ins and abilities there are in my opinion needed.
Also, they would perform similiar to the PzKpfW III.

What I also don't like is the T-34/76 from the Finns. They didn't used it in great numbers plus it's already part of the Red Army. But AGN needs something like a tank...

Sadly, for the most part all of the Finns armor was leased to them so we have already seen them [the armor the finns used] in the other factions. Now you could shake things up, I've seen and read some evidence stating that the finns used the Pz38t. Now this is based on very debatable evidence but I have no doubt they used them at one point or the other. It's a lighter unit so I would remove or at least increase the cap on how many the player is allowed to have on the field. The Pz38t had a lot of experience in the east and to leave it out would be a crime. But like I said, there is little evidence so it's all about how you and the devs feel if they pick your concept.

Cheers!
-Nathan
Post Merge: May 12, 2010, 06:29:02 PMAnother thing, the Pz38t would be for the most part easy to model. The Marder III and the Hetzer both were designed off of the chassis for the Pz38t so you have the basic chassis already completed.

[Werwolf]

Thanks for your ideas, Werwolf! I was already thinking about the Turán II, but I completly forgot the Italians. 

However both have a 75mm gun, unlocking those tanks by "5cm cannon"-upgrade in HQ would be a little bit strange, wouldn't it?

Heck, I don't really know what I should do...

On the one hand, it would be nice to have the P26/40 (with Turan II) as call-in in the 'Foreign-Division' sub-doctrin but on the other hand all call-ins and abilities there are in my opinion needed.
Also, they would perform similiar to the PzKpfW III.

What I also don't like is the T-34/76 from the Finns. They didn't used it in great numbers plus it's already part of the Red Army. But AGN needs something like a tank...

Sadly, for the most part all of the Finns armor was leased to them so we have already seen them [the armor the finns used] in the other factions. Now you could shake things up, I've seen and read some evidence stating that the finns used the Pz38t. Now this is based on very debatable evidence but I have no doubt they used them at one point or the other. It's a lighter unit so I would remove or at least increase the cap on how many the player is allowed to have on the field. The Pz38t had a lot of experience in the east and to leave it out would be a crime. But like I said, there is little evidence so it's all about how you and the devs feel if they pick your concept.

Cheers!
-Nathan
Post Merge: May 12, 2010, 06:29:02 PMAnother thing, the Pz38t would be for the most part easy to model. The Marder III and the Hetzer both were designed off of the chassis for the Pz38t so you have the basic chassis already completed.

It's possible... 

[Blackbishop]

Yeah... i was thinking about the Pz38t too, it could have an upgrade like "armor skirts" or something like that to represent the upgrade from PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. A-D to E-G, normally it should fire HE shells and could fire APCBC or APCR rounds for some munitions . Later in the war they stopped being used, just for recon, that could be reflected with an ability to call for artillery fire later. As an early ww2 tank it wouldn't be "OP", it should have stats like the hotchkiss or stuart tank, that's what i thought about the replacement tank for PzIII.

Source
Panzer 38t
Panzer 38t main gun