The Eastern Front Mod in Russia

[Happycat]

That for a delirium does talk? Brains are washed for you behind an ocean. If does not know about what talk, better silent. For such for us at a muzzle beat

Instead of dismissing my post in such poorly, poorly written English try to at least argue why you think I'm wrong.

[Red_Stinger]

"if the Soviet units were more "historically accurrate" and had special functions that made them loot the map houses ramdomly and rape everything in sight"

That's actually very rude over a russian/ukrainian people, and very immature! Things happened in WW2 cant be resume with generality, and especially things that happened in the eastern front.

I've never seen anyone tell something about german soldier who were rapping and looting everywhere during sometimes 4 years of occupation, BEFORE soviet army. There is a big difference about the largeness of war crime commit by the 2 army.

I've never seen anyone tell something about the american, who "liberated" france by bombing out entire cities ( like they did in Germany ) and rapping thousands of french women!! This was the most important wave of rapes in the french history. But no one look worried about this!

So before post immature and disrespectful comment, please, think about this.

[Zerstörer]

I think that's the end of the thread people. We've clarified the Dev's perspective on this and the way we make our factions. There is no further need to argue and flame for the sake of it.

[Happycat]

That's actually very rude over a russian/ukrainian people, and very immature! Things happened in WW2 cant be resume with generality, and especially things that happened in the eastern front.

Sorry no offense intended, just being sarcastic to that guy.

[thebomb]

All right, before we make any more rash statements let's look at what the review actually said in more detail. I've taken the time to translate it as best I could.

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On January 21st the mod “Eastern Front” was released. For those who waited eagerly for the mod, it is finally here. The release of this mod brought about two kinds of fans. The first, foaming at the mouth types, exclaimed incessantly the awesomeness of the mod. The second camp, the supporters of the original game, tried to open the eyes of their misguided peers. We also could not sit idly by and distance ourselves from the mod. We support those people who are speaking out against the mod. Let us preserve CoH’s purity of blood and not let it be replaced by an amateurish attempt to replace the original. Although we thank the modders for putting in a titanic effort into the creation of this mod, let’s start at the beginning lest our fans burn up in a fit of rage.

First impressions.

Our first doubts about the quality of the mod appeared during installation. A picture of Soviet soldiers dismounting from a T34 suddenly appeared, followed by the background cacophony of battle. This aroused some curiosity but we later realized this belied the fact that the game lacked the charm of a serious piece of work. This was but a trifle, however, which really isn’t relevant to the actual game.

And so upon launching the game we are greeted with the unsightly mug of a commissar (clearly taken from Call of Duty 2). The background music being very pleasant (used from the soundtrack of the film “Hunt for the Red October”) it still was out of place and fit in with the general substandard quality of the mod. With impatience I create a game and choose the USSR. With surprise I note that the Soviet faction was strictly added [translator’s note – I assume he meant that it was added as a completely new faction and did not replace any of the existing factions]. The “Ostheer” will be added in the distant future. With the players gathered – we could begin.

After the game loaded it felt as though we were watching a rerun of “Enemy at the Gates”. Hmm…interesting, interesting…With a few clicks of the mouse we had at our disposal the proverbial “Russian Horde” ready to be used as cannon fodder. While the troops tore at our eyes and emitted incomprehensible sounds, we sent them to look for MG42s or anything that might bring about some action or epic battlefield drama. It is worthwhile to note that the USSR has access to everything. Tanks, artillery, air support...All of this is in abundance and costs almost nothing. In fact, an artillery barrage does not even cost any resources, the same for grenades and other things that bring about happiness in one’s life. A certain feeling of discomfort arises from the fact that the player can experience four long years of war in one single match. One quickly gets accustomed to it however and ends up giggling nervously while obliterating swathes of Wehrmacht forces.  Winning my first match with my partner left me with a positive first impression, ignoring the nagging feeling that a lot of the mod was still rough around the edges, the mod after all is about us. Having said that we should not celebrate yet since first impressions can be deceiving. Now let’s look at the mod a little bit closer.

Enemy at the Gates…Really?

We’ll begin with the fact that Russian voiceovers are completely lacking. We have instead a mishmash of Soviet and Wehrmacht voices – a little strange isn’t it? Moreover, we were disappointed to find out that Russian soldiers can’t retreat or man heavy weaponry. Not one step back? Yes it’s here (unfortunately)… Meanwhile we have the cheapest unit in the mod “conscripts”. Here we have another little curiosity. Half of them are not armed and can’t even fight in hand-to-hand combat. Modders, could you at least decide on the period during which all of this takes place? I’m not even talking about the fact that there are symbols of communism present, commissars are everywhere and some squads even have standard bearers (what the hell?) To put it briefly: While the infantry was drawn very well – there nevertheless lingers a strange odor about the mod.

The SU tanks are quite dangerous while the IS-2 is worth its weight in gold. There is a diverse selection of tanks that await us in the game which clearly cannot be bad. But some of them were a bit disappointing…For example the “Zveroboy”. Even a shot from this tank fails to inflict any serious damage to a panther which should be destroyed in one shot from an anti-tank round. We were glad to see the T34 which could carry tank riders into battle. However the modeling of the tank itself was…average. Destroyed tanks seem to have the same burnt-out model which isn’t easy on the eyes. Especially when the tank is facing the right but when destroyed, ends up facing the left.

The artillery – this was something. It was a lot of fun and greatly amused us, but the unsightly modeling of the Katyusha spoiled the party so to say. The model was taken from “” [translator’s note: does not say, I assume one of the Axis vehicles]. The artillery could definitely use some more work.

The creators of the mod did not limit themselves to just creating a new faction – they also made some maps. To tell you the truth, it’s hard to call them maps. It would be better to say they were hastily drawn and simply looked good on the surface. Some maps simply were redrawn from the original, for example “Leningrad” shared a 90% similarity to the map “Battle on the River”.

In conclusion…

In concluding our review we’ll say one thing – the modders clearly played “Call of Duty 2” a lot and are fans of “Enemy at the Gates”. On the whole the mod is targeted towards degenerates and lovers of spam. For the average player the mod will provide two, at most four, days of enjoyment. There is a massive dissonance, it feels like the mod is unfinished and is in need of serious additional work. We’ll wait a bit and see what happens when the Ostheer is released. 
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I have a response to quite a few posts in this thread but I'm a little burnt-out (pardon the pun) from the translating 

[Red_Stinger]

That's actually very rude over a russian/ukrainian people, and very immature! Things happened in WW2 cant be resume with generality, and especially things that happened in the eastern front.

Sorry no offense intended, just being sarcastic to that guy.

Dont worry, I was myself a bit (very?) rude, I dont wanted to flame you! 

About the review, it's clear that they have only play at 1.00, which was far from balanced/interesting as it's now ( I mean less interesting about the way the soviet was able to play ) .

I'm curious about their opinion for EF 1.11.

If I agree with some things ( the ridiculus RBB  ), some of their statement show clearly that they dont have any idea of balance: "Even a shot from this tank fails to inflict any serious damage to a panther which should be destroyed in one shot from an anti-tank round".
Oh my god!
Also, I dont like their vision of EF mappers. How can they say that "they were hastily drawn and simply looked good on the surface". Have they ever tried to make a map?

It seem to me that dev shouldnt have to care about a review written by an inexperienced and disrespectful guy. Numerous people have a great opinion of their work, and everyone need at least recognise the work which was done by a team, only with their free-time.

[wordsmith]

@thebomb: thank you man for translation! it is much better to read than with google translate, which needs so much imagination to decipher the original text. I can read Russian quite good and understand a lot since it is slavic language similar to mine (Slovakia) but I would not be able to translate whole text correctly for sure. Thank you again for your effort.

[InkvizitoR_51rus]

Why is a cannon of ZIS-2 the done model Pak-38? And where famous soviet artillery? Why in a game the pitiful English howitzer, but not 152mm cannon of ML-20. And why the unarmed soldiers are needed in draftees, if pound from them it is not.

Happycat, and what are you right from? I borned in Russia, and I know history of the country and victory of my nation better. I will say confidentially, in our Russia bears walk on streets with balalaikas. I live in a wooden log cabin and sleep on a large stove. In the morning we drink vodka all of family from a samovar))))

[WartyX]

I am from the UK but I don't complain about the ridiculous lack of any historical value in the British faction, and the same goes for my German and American friends. Neither Eastern Front nor Company of Heroes have any aim to be accurate representations of the war.

[thebomb]

I am from the UK but I don't complain about the ridiculous lack of any historical value in the British faction, and the same goes for my German and American friends. Neither Eastern Front nor Company of Heroes have any aim to be accurate representations of the war.

I don't think it's so much the historical inaccuracies themselves that people are complaining about - it's the fact that the historical inaccuracies don't favor the Soviets as they do the other factions. Of course you don't complain about the inaccuracies of the British faction because it is presented in a badass way - the CoH way. If someone were to design the British faction as you had designed the Soviets then British soldiers would automatically retreat when they engaged a numerically superior force (we've got to portray the British Expeditionary Force's failures somehow). In fact, if a squad gets pinned down - the British player gets an "out" whereby the Germans take pity and let them retreat without casualties (like what happened at Dunkirk). And finally, British infantry could not go into battle without first stocking up on tea at the player's HQ.

Do you see what I mean?

The point the reviewer and the posters in this thread are trying to make is that the historical inaccuracies in the game portrays the German, American and British factions in a rather favorable light. The units are portrayed as heroes and badasses. The Soviet units meanwhile are portrayed in the opposite way. How can a conscript be badass when they get shot for being suppressed? That's not badass at all. When the reviewer from the Russian site said that the purity of CoH was being tainted by this mod I think he meant it in this way.

[Aouch]

In fact, I think the way the DEVs designed the Conscripts is a bit, hmmm, not really disrespectful, rather in the direction thebomb explained it:
Relic overdraws the factions but made them "cool", EF made the russians look "a bit silly". At least when it comes to Conscripts.

However, in the end it "feels right". Don't forget that USSR also got some fancy stuff to play with like guards or IS-2.
I think some of the russian players just overreacted and certainly can't take "criticism"/jokes about theirself.

EDIT: Another thing just came into my mind: WH "Volksgrenadiers". They are represented like old men and children, but infact Volksgrenadier-units were made out of soldiers who lost their original unit. There were tankers without tanks, pilots without planes and grenadiers without division.

[BDNeon]

If the russians don't like it, well let them cry. The mod is based on movies and games just as the regular game is based on movies and TV series like Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan. Enemy At the Gates portrays the russians as a vast horde with officers that shot them if they attempted to retreat. You can argue about the historical inaccuracies till you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people liked the movie and a lot of games were very influenced by it. So of course a mod based on the Eastern Front is going to take a few pages out of that movie, to appeal to the masses. Maybe Enemy at the Gates isn't a popular movie in Russia, but in a lot of other countries, we enjoyed many aspects of it.

Lets face a few facts here. How many legitimate Russian players are there in COH? (those who downloaded illegally dont count), compared to american, british, german, and australian players? This mod is trying to appeal to the masses. A few lost russian players isn't that big of a loss to them compared to the thousands of players from other countries.

And for the record, I'm a rather qualified historian of the period myself. I know what's historically accurate and what's not. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a silly romp through psuedo history. I play games like the Saboteur, Medal of Honor, and other titles that take more then a few liberties with the timeline, and you know what? I don't give a flying f-ck, because it's FUN. FUN, you know, that thing that games are supposed to BE?

If you want historical accuracy there are plenty of games to suit your fancy, in fact, many of them are from the same country full of whiners. Russia seems to churn out a new historically accurate turn based strategy every month. Simulations also seem to be constantly churned out of Russia, games like IL2 sturmovik for instance.

Plus there's a few heavy realism oriented shooters like Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45, and it's various mods Mare Nostrum for the Mediterranean theater of operations, and Darkest Hour: Normandy 44-45 for the late battles on the Western Front.

There are PLENTY of other games that DO claim to be historically accurate and try their best in that regard, so please. Shut up about the realism in this mod and go play one of them if it bugs you that much.

Edit: one quick afterthought. Just be glad that the devs didn't put in historically accurate features like raping all the women at the end of a victorious round, or shooting all the enemies officers if they're polish. That shit DID happen after all. Maybe you russians should remember just what your "heroes" did during the war. You weren't that far behind the germans as far as atrocities go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

[UeArtemis]

But Volksgrenadiers and grenadiers existed! And what are conscripts??? the Red Army had only Motorized Rifleman, Guards and etc. and all they were draftee.
About Knights Cross... One completely unhistorical unit against full non-historical faction? Russian do not want a historical simulation, they want to see the best aspects of their army.

Oh, ... Soviet war crimes... Jedi against the Empire of Evil? Let's talk about it after the anti-Soviet analogue of the Nuremberg Trials. Until then, it is only a war between two propagandas.

[BDNeon]

Don't even try to justify the crap that Russia pulled during WWII. Katyn, Lienz, the rape of Berlin, and those delightful little Gulags that were so plentiful. THESE ARE PROVEN UNDISPUTABLE FACTS OF WHICH PHYSICAL EVIDENCE EXISTS. Stalin had a little holocaust of his own going on, no one called him out for it because he didn't lose the friggin war.

You want historical accuracy, then this mod is going to have to include rapists and murder of surrendering enemies.

The international community may not want to deal with the issue, but we historians know the truth of what the Soviet Union was.

It sickens me how the Russians try to whitewash their war crimes. They're scum, even worse then the nazis. At least modern day germany acknowledges its war crimes. The Russians simply discount any claims of atrocities as propaganda even in the face of clear undisputable evidence.

Don't even try to peddle your Russian revisionist bullshit on these forums.

[UeArtemis]

The rape of Berlin is 100% propaganda Read works of professor Atina Grossmann
And Katyn is true.
But the topic is not about it