The SS

[Ltevanlee]

I think the SS should be included, mostly because they supported the Heer and played a major role in the eastern front, also I think if they are included they should be a call-in unit mostly because I don't want 10 OP SS squads running at my infantry sections. 

[HansBlix]

I completely agree with MrDefence: since all three major SS Division (Reich, LSSAH and Totenkopf) fought decisive battles in the russian campaign (charkov, kursk), they should be included in the Ostheer.

A doctrine ability would fit best. I suggest a 4-man SS-Infantry call-in squad with abilites similar to the Rangers, maybe more anti-tank capacity due to russian hvy tank counter.

[Ltevanlee]

And to answer Rommels question why do they need to be named the SS? Simple why is the Ranger Squad not named the Heavy Infantry Squad, the SS should be the same way.

[Saavedra]

The rule for naming is simple: when it is iconic, you give it an iconic name.

Calling riflemen "riflemen" is normal because they are not too iconic. Calling a King Tiger a "King Tiger" is normal because it is an iconic tank (calling it "Super-Heavy Tank" kind of dilutes the awesomeness factor).

It is the same reason Commandos, Airborne and the like have these names.

In the same way, why would you call "SS" something like "Heavy Infantry"? Not only does it dilute the awesomeness factor, it also contrasts with the actual heavy infantry like Assault Grenadiers.

[Werwolf]

I prefer the term "Waffen-Grenadier". it's historically sound/iconic ("Waffen-Grenadier" clearly hints at a Waffen-SS unit, unlike the more common usage of "Panzergrenadier"...with some exceptions of course), includes foreign volunteers, and placates rabid Germanophobes lol. So, it's a win-win for everyone. The "der SS" (as in 33. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne [Französische Nr. 1]) at the end is optional..many Waffen-SS divisions were known by their Divisional (i.e. Nordland) and Regimental (i.e. Hermann von Salza) cuff titles.

If by SS you people meant the Totenkopfverbande or Allegemeine-SS, then I don't see how they would fit into the game. 

[Aouch]

Werwolf's idea is in my opinion the best.  +1 and my personal approval for such a great yet simple suggestion!

Calling a possible SS-influenced unit "Waffen-Grenadiers" just puts in everything without annoying certain people and gives a good impression what this unit is, while at the same time leaving room for different interpretations.

[Griptonix]

listen to Rommel...SS will not be included (at least not by the name of SS)
also Griptonix, you have a strange signature that could lead people to odd coclusions  (like you were a SS fanboy )

Yes I sure am an SS fan boy! I think they were an awesome group of fighters, very effective in combat, and a major fighting arm of the German military. They should be included in the game for those reasons. All sides commited crimes and did terrible things during the war, and the actions of a handful of the SS divisions shouldn't restrict them from being included in the game.

[Pauly3]

man, i am sorry but i find that strange.....

[TacticalNuke]

Those responsible have paid for their crimes. Even if they didn't, chances are they're dead. I agree that they should be in the game representing the elites. They defiantly were among the best of the best in the art of war. Griptonix has a very good point. Pauly3 I think your making some wild accusations there.

[Werwolf]

It's all right, I can get where Pauly3 is coming from.  Generations of people born in post-war Germany were raised to think that the SS (including the Waffen-SS and the HIAG) were things that should be forgotten and relegated to the darkest corners of history. For most of them, these men, many of whom either died defending the Fatherland or shot as war criminals (justly or unjustly, with or without due process) are objects of national shame and disgrace. Hence, in Germany, openly admiring the SS or any other aspect of the Third Reich would immediately mark you as a Neo-Nazi. So, you can't blame him... It's just what a lot of people believe.

My great-grandfather was a Nordland vet. He had a clean record, but people still judged him because of his previous wartime affiliations (the Soviet soldiers who captured him even branded him on the back of his neck with a crude poker shaped like a swastika). Wherever he went, he was sometimes ridiculed as a volunteer-member of an "evil" army who lost the war. But still, according to my mother and my grandfather, he wore his medals and badges with pride, especially during important occasions. He earned them. And I'm not ashamed of him either.     

Okay, back to topic. 

[Seeme]

My great grand father died hes first 3 days of combat

[Blackbishop]

"Those who forget their past are condemned to repeat the same mistakes."
— Robert A. Heinlein

You can be sure that SS has a place on Ostheer .

[wordsmith]

One thing is to have the units of Waffen SS in game and another is its naming. As for unit itself I think it has to be a part of the Ostheer without any doubt, simply because it was a part of EF and had fought many important battles.

Problem is naming the unit "SS" which:
- maybe be offensive for some people
- is against a law in some countries

My both grandfathers fought in WW2, one as member of Hlinka's Guards - which was practically fascist volunteer troop in Slovakia (similar to SS), he fought f.e. also in Italy. This grandpa finds offensive the NKVD naming, red stars and all communist symbols. However these are not against a law in any country.

Second grandfather was first part of Slovak Army which helped in initial phase of Barbarossa and somewhere near Krym campaign he deserted and joined Slovak resistance army which fought with Soviets vs Axis. Then in engineer troop fought in Slovakia later as partisan and part of resistance, blowing up railways, bunkers and bridges. He was also a member of communist party and he on the other hand hated all nazi symbols and its representatives. In this case such thing IS actually incorporated in a law of our country (and in other countries in EU too) where is forbidden to show or present nazi symbols. It's against a law and that is the problem.

I personally wouldn't mind naming the unit even "Waffen SS" or similar but unfortunatelly it is against a law. That is why I think it should be incorporated but it should have some neutral name like Werwolf suggested or "Stosstruppen", "Assault squad", "Stormtroopers", "Shock troops"' "Storm squad" etc.

As for the problem that some people might find it offensive, this could be said also about red stars and NKVD too. And those things actually are part of game so I don't think it should stop devs from putting them into game. As said - it was a part of the history.

[TheReaper]

One thing is have the units of Waffen SS in game and another is its naming. As for unit itself I think it has to be a part of the Ostheer without any doubt, simply because it was a part of EF and had foufght many important battles.

Problem is naming the unit "SS" which:
- maybe be offensive for some people
- is against a law in some countries

My both grandfathers fought in WW2, one as member of Hlinka's Guards - which was practically fashist volunteer troop in Slovakia (similar to SS), he fought f.e. also in Italy. This grandpa finds offensive the NKVD naming, red stars and all communist symbols. However these are not against a law in any country.

Second grandfather was first part of Slovak Army which helped in initial phase of Barbarossa and somewhere near Krym campaign he deserted and joined Slovak resistance army which fought with Soviets vs Axis. Then in engineer troop fought in Slovakia later as partisan and part of resistance, blowing up railways, bunkers and bridges. He was also a member of communist party and he on the other hand hated all nazi symbols and its representatives. In this case such thing IS actually incorporated in a law of our country (and in other countries in EU too) where is forbidden to show or present nazi symbols. It's against a law and that is the problem.

I personally wouldn't mind naming the unit even "Waffen SS" or similar but unfortunatelly it is against a law. That is why I think it should be incorporated but it should have some neutral name like Werwolf suggested or "Stosstruppen", "Assault squad", "Stormtroopers", "Shock troops"' "Storm squad" etc.

As for the problem that some people might find it offensive, this could be said also about red stars and NKVD too. And those things actually are part of game so I don't think it should stop devs from putting them into game. As said - it was a part of the history.

+1
Exactly. Those are my thoughts tt but coudn't write it any better.

[Saavedra]

Legality being the only obstacle (I mean, besides the YOU CANT PUT THAT IN A GAME IT IS DISGUSTING crowd), I think may be necessary indeed to change the name. However, Storm Squads and all the other ideas wordsmith suggests are a little bit too bland and too similar to the Storm Troopers already in vCoH.

I would suggest something more evocative like "Fatherland Defenders", "Fatherland Volunteers", "Volunteers of the Party", "Death Soldiers"...

I dunno, something that is either fearsome, or inspiring.

Or hell, have both. One SS squad that is all about professionalism and fulfilling one´s duty as a soldier, and another squad that is all RAWRG MUST EAT ZE UNTERMENCH´S BABIES.