The SS

[HyperSniper999]

There is nothing wrong with the W-SS that the Allies didn't do. I actually really want to see SS with their lightning bolt logo instead of some sturmtrupen panzy junk.

[maxi1991]

Well. I'm against the Waffen-SS.
That have some reasons i will explaine u:

All in all i have "nothing" against SS.-troops in a game
but i ask me what will be the benefit for the game?
CoH take place in the 2. ww and "simulate" battles
between the axis, alliies and red troops.
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
Out of the perspective of CoH i have to ask me what
such a troop would bring to the game?
Out of my view it would be just the name and nothing more. CoH-battles are to small and to "simple structured"
to show the realy side of the Waffen-SS.
Okay. Some of u will say that SS-Units will be heavy armed, heavy to suppress and extreme feared units one the battlefield. My question is; why does such a troop with "elite status" had to be called SS?
When u just want to have "elite units" whats about "Großdeutschland" or a more "abstract name"?

So when someone can explain me the benefits for the CoH i would be the last one who would boycott this idea...

Well , the W-SS was part in many battles of the WW2 on tha east. If the W-SS would only participtaed in few battles there would be no need for them but they were involved in a lot of ww2 battles. there don't need to be bad bad symbols which bring you in jail in germany but only to bring in the w-ss which is far away from SS-TV or Einsatzgruppen which were the real criminal groups of the gnatzys

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

mh i also think there should be some w-ss units für the ostheer. maybe only doctrinal units but there were a improtant part of the eastern war! but i also agree rommel when he say that there is always the same idears. strongest unit in game. hard to supress etc...

maybe it should be a unit you can´t supress but also can´t retreat, because the waffe ss souldiers were politicaly and ideologicaly trained. they fought without regardless of the losses! they should be strong but not stronger than knight cross holders!!!

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Well. At the moment any one had write a real reason for call a unit SS-Unit and not "Elite-Unit" or just "Unit".

They were parts of the battles of the east and the west.
They had fought on the frontlines.
But i cant see any benefit for CoH when we would name an unit "SS-Soldiers" ( or things like that ).

And with the problems of the symbols;
well. I hadnt write out this topic, right
But it is a real problem for german players and
i think that we had not to discuss this here.

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

to make it clear. for me it´s not neccessary to call them ss soldiers. call them sturmtruppen or something like that, but i think they should be recognized as soldiers form the waffen-ss.
But do not misunderstand, i don´t mean nazi flags or things like that. their ability should show what they represented on the battlefield.

[cephalos]

so whole argue is about name? 
call them "elite german troops", veterans, finest Vaterland's soliders... they don't have to be called SS, but they apperarance and abilities ( no retreat, high damage resist) should slightly suggest that they aren't ordinary soliders.

[Schuultz]

Rommel, while I'm generally indifferent about the inclusion/exclusion of an Waffen-SS Unit/Doctrine/Whatever, I do think that you could do some interesting gameplay stuff with them.

Some Examples:

*The Waffen SS had a brutal and fanatic reputation. As such, you could simulate the effect this had on the enemy by increasing their ability to suppress the enemy, giving them an ability/chance to put them into flight or the like.

* Again, going back to their reputation for fanaticism, a 'No Suppression' ability, similar to that of the US-Paratroopers could be included.

* Ironically, the Waffen-SS ended up being the most multi-ethnic and multi-cultural army of the war. Bosniaks, Turks or even British could be included.

* The Waffen-SS gained a reputation for being the 'Firefighters of the Army', being sent to help out Wehrmacht units wherever need may be.
(This was a job they took over from the Fallschirmjaegers after most of them were transferred to fight in Italy and the Western Front)
As such, they could receive added speed or be bought as an off-map unit, as is the case in the normal CoH.

* The Waffen-SS were the first to employ camouflage uniforms and employed a variety of designs throughout the war. Visual variety aside, this could be used, for example, as an Upgrade (Better Design -> Better Camouflage, going from Invis-when-standing to Invis-when-moving)


Those are just a couple of ideas I thought of right from the get-go. Of course you could probably do most, if not all of them without referring to the unit(s) as Waffen SS, but that would of course only serve personal reservations.

PS: With regards to the legal worries for German Players/Developers:
The simple reference of the Waffen-SS is not punishable in any form, art or not. It only get's illegal when you employ the double Sig-Rune. You could even name a unit "Waffen-SS Grenadiers" or whatever, and as long as you don't write it with the Sig-Runes, you're fine.
Furthermore, since the Waffen-SS units mostly used 'Schluepfhemde' and Helmet covers in the field which covered the collar tabs, the mappers wouldn't even have to draw the undesirable symbols.

I'm not even going to go into the arguments of videogames being art and therefore exempt from the ban on NS-symbols.

[HyperSniper999]

Or you could tell Merkel and her socialist-liberals to go suck it.

[Akalonor]

ouch ,

But umm,  isn't it a very thin line naming a unit SS due to German Law?

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

ißm not sure
but on the other side it´s still a mod and you can do what you want^^

i think it would be another thing if this is a official addon of relic. but afaik there are no law rules for mods

[Aouch]

Since Eastern Front has (had?) the intention to be an official CoH-expansion, I think we shouldn't name a unit straight-a-head "Waffen-SS" or something similiar.

It should be done like in vanilla CoH: Make a unit or faction which could be the SS, but don't name it.
For example, I included a "Foreign Volunteer" squad into my concept. With the description elite soldiers everyone can think they're part of SS-Division Viking or Handzar but also "normal units" like 250th Spanish Div.
A Protectionsquad (armed with MP28) could be a SD or SS-police unit but at the same time a simple WH-unit behind the frontline.

[Reinefarth]

The Waffen SS didn't play a very important role on the Eastern Front until the Battle of Berlin, so I say no

You are makin jokes, right?

Battle of Prokhorovka/Kursk - "not a very important role"?
Battle of Charkow? - "not a very important role"?

The Waffen-SS was so "unimportant" in the East, that they just happend to recruit several Divisions out of Baltics, Ukraine and even Bjelorussians, eh? (Kampfgruppe Kaminski ect.)

Sorry to have to say this, but such comments show a pathetic ignorance in history. The only place the Waffen-SS didn't fight was Africa.

Of course the Ostheer need Waffen-SS!!!

[HyperSniper999]

ouch ,

But umm,  isn't it a very thin line naming a unit SS due to German Law?

Not everyone lives in Germany. I, for example, am American. Why should I follow a totalitarian, stupid law that doesn't even exist in my own country and probalbly never will because of the consitution and right of free speech of the USA?

Besides, Nazis would go to Sweden or Norway, not Germany, if they regained power.

[Blackbishop]

It like devs stated time ago "do you want to name it in that way just to prove that in our mod that can be done" or something like that i don't remember if was BurroDiablo, WartyX or Rizz... why do you want to name a unit SS pwns@ll?? The name isn't important you know .

[WartyX]

SS will be incorporated in the same way as Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite. They won't specifically be called 'SS', but certain units' uniforms and loadout will indicate this.

Relic didn't call Riflemen 'US Army Riflemen', and they didn't call Stormtroopers 'SS Stormtroopers'. There is no reason to call our elite troops the SS, just to prove that we can write 'SS' in our game.