Updated ostheer army waiting for criticizm

[Paciat]

Ill start by saing please CRITISIZE. Ill be happy to answer all posts.
...so here is my Ostheer concept. Ill underline things that are most interesting or add a picture if you dont want to read the whole thing.

VETERANCY

Every level of vet is an ability or an upgrade.
There are little offensive or defensive upgrades (vet). This helpes Ostheer be unique.
Becouse allmost all vet adds an ability or something that changes how the unit looks (camo, turret MGs, tank commander, armored shirts, increased sight range) players will quickly know what they gained.


BUILDINGS
Build order will look like this.

[Tier 1] [Tier 2] [Tier 3]  [Heavy guns upgrade]
                            \      /
                           [Tier 4]

Tier 1 is very usefull in early game but theres a posibility to spam Ost pionees and go to tier 2 and have tanks 15 fuel quicker. Tier 3 is to expensive to build it in early game but some fuel can be saved by not building tier 2. (like russian tank hull)

Tiers are not mobile becouse its hard to balance a fraction like commonwealth. Some more units can be added to the list:
I didnt name them, becouse I dont know german. Still I think that unit speech and tier names shouldnt be in english.
Allmost all units are new. I tried hard not to use the same models as the Wehrmacht/PE. A Tiger I is on the list becouse 65% of the forum wants it (Me too).


HQ

1. Ost pionees - inf target:
 3xpioMP40
 70HP
 200MP
 Wehrmacht pionees abilities.
 Can place mines.
 Eintossflammenwerfer 46 disposable flamethrower ability.
  25ammo
  Works like a panzerfaust or granade but its a flamethrower!
 Vet1: Changes PioMP40 to Volks MP40 (better range and better acc at close ranges)
 Vet2: Can place demo charges.
 Vet3: Inf. elite target and Battlefield repair (takes less damage when reparing just like vet 3 pios)
  Can build bunkers with upgrades:
   MG bunker - Same MG as Wehrmacht.
   Radio bunker:
    Sight bonus +30.
    Spots snipers.
    25ammo.

2. Heavy guns upgrade:
 150MP/50fuel
 StugIIIe to StugIIIg - gun upgrade.
 Unlocks TierIV (if you have a TierIII)
 Ost pionees can build Pantherturm building.
  200MP/30Fuel
  Pantherturm is a building not an emplacement (like a trench) so recrewing it will be possible (unlike heavy weapons and emplacements).

3. Securing points is now possible.
 100MP/30fuel.
 Securing points can be done by infantry. Its a UNR3AL concept. Its like a second capping or booby trapping but it costs 200MP (all securing buildings/vechicles/upgrades cost at least 200MP). The enemy destroyes it when he starts uncapping.

4. First aid kid upgrade - all infantry (not weapon crews) can use a first aid kid for 20 ammo if their lost at least 1 man. It works the same as in Causeway and Tiger Ace campains but the healer will help the closest man that is still alive but on the ground (not neseserly from the same squad) and then the wounded man joines the squad.
Also all infantry and weapon crews slowly heal themselves 10MP/min. (As fast as vet 1 wehrmacht and def. vet 3 PE)
 200MP/40fuel

5. Pioneers and Gebirgsjägers can prepare a camo net. This ability allows to camo every unit untill it moves or shoots. Every camo net should be cheap (10 ammo). It takes 10 secs to create a camo net. (Its a vietlord idea.)
 100MP/20fuel


Tier 1 200/10fuel
A whole Tier can be non-german. I would advise Italians becouse it will be easy to use Italian COH voices. (Just like Soviets use Russian version of US voices)

1. Italian/Hungarian/Romanian soldiers - inf target:
 4xrifles 1xPistol
 60HP
 270MP
 Vet 1: Gains LMG upgrade.
  50ammo (only 1 re-skinned BREN).
 Vet 2: Can throw AT granades (same as PE).
 Vet 3: Commander (one with a pistol) spots snipers like a german oficer.

2. Cavalry scout - heroic (like KCH infantry and British officers 1 sniper shot dosnt kill him) target:
 1xk98 rifle
 80HP
 150MP
 Quickly caps points.
 Spoting unit like a motorbike.
 Cant use cover.
 Vet 1: Marksman ability.
 Vet 2: Binoculars.
 Vet 3: Camo when in cover and not moving.

3. Pak 3,7cm 36/47mm AT gun - Can fight light armor (up to Stuart):
 220MP
 50 range
 1xrifle
 Camo
 Vet 1: Focused Fire ability - just like PE AT halftrack.
 Vet 2: Treadbreaker - just like PE AT halftrack.
 Vet 3: Longer spotting radius.

4. More men upgrade:
 200MP/50fuel
 Ita/Hun/Rom soldiers have 6 men now.
 Ost pionees Pak 3,7cm/47mm, MG-34 and 7.5 cm howitzer have 4 men now. (so they wont get decrewed so easielly)


Tier 2 200/40fuel

1. Gebirgsjäger - inf. soldier/elite target:
 4xgren K98 rifles.
 90 HP
 360 MP
 PzB 35(p) AT rifle upgrade with treadbreaker ability. This rifle is not as powerfull as a Soviet PTRD-41 but is more accurate vs infantry.

  50ammo
0,25 recived accuracy while in retreat modifier (like Tommies).
 Vet 1: Marksman ability. Works with and without AT rifle upgrade. Doctrinal MP44 upgrade disables it.
 Vet 2: Can throw AT granades.
 Vet 3: Fallschirmjäger camo.

2. Light MG-34 squad - inf target:
 1xlight MG-34
 2xvolks k98
 70HP
 320MP
 Upgrade to Heavy MG-34 - 25ammo.
 MG-34 would have a lower rate of fire than MG-42 but k98 would make it better at long range. No recrew dosnt afect LMGs, thats why I added this unit.
 Vet 1: Tracer ammo ability - more accurate but guners are easier to hit.
  25ammo
 Vet 2: Inf. elite target.
 Vet 3: AP rounds.

3. 7.5 cm le.IG 18 howitzer (3 men):
 1xluger
 300MP
 Same range as the nebelwerfer.
 Very accurate so it can counter-battery Soviet heavy mortars.
 Fires 5 shells.
 Vet 1: Longer spotting radius for the oficer (the one with a luger).
 Vet 2: Overwatch.
 Vet 3: Fires 6 shells.


Tier 3 200MP/100fuel (Balance - it has to be so much fuel)

1. Sdkfz 251:
 Can tow 3,7cm/47mm and 7.5 cm le.IG guns.
 Can reinforce troops.
 Vet 1: MGs have gunners even if theres no squad inside the halftrack.
 Vet 2: 0,9 recived accuracy when moving. (Didnt know what the third ability could be)
 Vet 3: Can drop mines like an US AC or PE munitions halftrack.

2. Sdkfz 7/1 20mm quad halftrack (wirblewind) - sdkfz 251 target and HP.
 360MP/40fuel
  Can tow 3,7cm/47mm and 7.5 cm le.IG guns.
 Vet 1: Lock down - more accurate at long distances and vs planes.
 Vet 2: 0,9 recived accuracy when moving. (Didnt know what the third ability could be)
 Vet 3: AP rounds.


3. PzIIIL - PzIV target:
 360MP/50fuel
 500HP
 5cm gun - Pumas gun. High accuracy. (Snipes infantry)
 Vet 1: AP shells ability.
 Vet 2: Armored skirts.
 Vet 3: Commander. (+10 spotting range)

4. StugIIIe/f (stubby) - stugIV target:
 PE PzIV gun (no lockdown)
 StugIV gun (after glonal upgrade)
 400HP
 320MP/50fuel
 Vet 1: MG-gunner.
 Vet 2: Armored skirts.
 Vet 3: Ambush.


Tier 4 200MP/50fuel

1. JagdpanzerIV - Jagdpanther target
 600HP
 500MP/90fuel
 SutgIV gun
 Vet 1: Panthers gun.
 Vet 2: Armored skirts.
 Vet 3: Ambush.

2. Tiger I:
 800MP/180fuel.
 One on the field limit.
 No vet or the same vet as Wehrmacht. No abilities. It cant be better than the wehrmacht Tiger.

3. Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating upgrade:
 All German tanks and SP guns take 75% less damage from sticky bombs and AT granades
  100MP/30fuel.

4. Upgraded tank optics:
 All German tanks and SP guns recive +2,5 to main gun max range and +5 to spotting radius and +10% to accuracy.
  200MP/60fuel.

DOCTRINES:
Didnt care much to name them. Its not the name that is important.


EUROPES SUPPORT:

Foreign industry support:

1CP Pionees can salvage wrecks.

1CP Czech industry is working for us:
 Vechicle production speed is increased by 50%.

2CP Recovering vechicle wrecks of friendly and enemy vechicles can now be done by our pionees.


Foreign light troops support:

3CP Hungarian Toldi tank can now be called in:
 Hotchkiss target
 400MP
 350HP
 Vet 1: Commander. (+10 spotting range)
 Vet 2: Overdrive.
 Vet 3: Focused fire.

2CP Call in a spy:
 Sniper target
 1x luger
 450MP
 50HP (low)
 Camo, binoculars, booby trap demo charge, and divert supplies abilities.
 Can build a "Telemetry station" detector.
 It will look like a radio triangulation detector and work like a vampire halftrack detecting ability but for tanks also.
 No vet. A spy is not a fighting unit.

2CP Osttruppen battlegroup is now ready:
 700MP
 2xTier 1 infantry
 1x7.5 cm howitzer, Toldi tank, PzIIIL, StugIII or 2x3,7cm/47mm guns (random like Off-map combat group).


SIEGE:

Breakthru weapons:

1CP Tier 1 infantry can throw granades. Gebirgsjäger can throw bundled grenades.

4CP PzIII flamethrower tank can now be called in (No main gun, hull mounted flamethrower):
 750MP
 Vet 1: MG gunner.
 Vet 2: Armored skirts.
 Vet 3: Main gun is operational.

Can aneone see a difference? 

3CP Ferdinand heavy SP anti-tank gun can now be called:
 Tiger I target
 900MP
 1500HP
 Jagdpanthers gun.
 Slow as the KT/SU-152.
 1 on the field limit.
 Crush medium(it had too little engine power).
 Vet 1: Hull MG.
 Vet 2: Marders site main gun.
 Vet 3: Crush heavy.


Heavy guns:

2CP Bunkers can now call a light mortar barrage within their spotting range. (Works well with a radio upgrade)
 0 ammo, 5minutes cooldown

1CP We can now use Storch recon plane to spot for our artillery (Storch is like the US P-47 but slower and easier to shoot down).

3CP Wespe SP gun can now be called.
 Hummel target.
 550MP
 350HP
 25lbs gun damage and range (I know it had a 105 but it cant be as strong as the hummel).
 Fires 4 rounds
 Vet 1: Lockdown - increased range so it can match an super charged 25lbs.
 Vet 2: Overwatch.
 Vet 3: 5 rounds.


MANOUVER:

Lightning strikes:

3CP MP44 are now available to our Gebirgsjäger:
Gebirgsjäger can be upgraded with MP44.

1CP Capping is now 25% faster.

1CP Our light vechicles can now use overdrive:
 Halftracks and PzIIIL.


Combined arms coordination:

2CP Panzer crews now support each other.
 Ablility like a group zeal but works on tanks/stugs.
How Group zeal works?

3CP Ju-87 can drop a bomb with point blank accuracy.
 200ammo
 weaker than a V-1
 Weaker infantry (most US and Soviet infantry) are suppresses for a short moment by the sound of a Stuka diving.
 120sec cooldown.

4CP Tiger ace can now be called in:
 1 time call-in.
 1000MP (More than KT, Jagdpanther)
 Loweres MP income. (Just like KT, Jagdpanther)
 As strong as vet 3 Tiger. All stats are the same exept the gun. Its little more accurate and more accurate while on the move.

CONCLUSION

Things that make this army different make it great:
Completely italian/hungarian/romanian tier 1.
Light MG34 that can be upgraded to HMG is a good idea too.
A spy.
PzIIIL would be a perfect counter to all light armor.
All weapon crews have 1 or 2 rifles. They will fight back at long (18-35) ranges.
Vet 3 Gebirgsjäger that are even harder to kill than Tommies.
A camo net can be used on all units but it takes time to use it.

I also wanted to add units/abilities that I read about at this forum:
Vet that adds abilities
Non german infantry
Hungarian Toldi tank
Halftracks towing light guns
3,7cm PaK 36
Zimmerit anti-magnetic coating
Flamethrower tank
Eintossflammenwerfer 46 disposable flamethrower
A camo net
Elephant
Tiger ace comeback.

Thats all I have to so say. Sorry about my bad english (Im from Poland), thanks for reading and thanks very much for the EF add on. Please post.

[Danius]

I think its the way your thread is set up.

Its names after names and more names.

Like reading a boring book.

Some of the names are good ideas though lol.

[Paciat]

230 views and no posts?
At least post that everything about this army sucks. 

[sgt.Irinhide]

not bad,it was good the way you mixed Italian,Romanian and Hungarian solder's together and different concepts but I feel like this would be another red army just axis though.
the ostheer army would be a little overdone but you had some good ideas

[Paciat]

not bad,it was good the way you mixed Italian,Romanian and Hungarian solder's together and different concepts but I feel like this would be another red army just axis though.
the ostheer army would be a little overdone but you had some good ideas

I tried to think about hard working developers.
Some things are difficult to code, others to balance...

There are some differences between it and the Soviets (or Wermacht):
1. More MP expensive than Soviets.
2. Vet.
3. No SMG and doctrinal-only MP-44.
4. Light MGs can be build (not upgraded).
5. Its based on assault guns more than on tanks.
6. Very early and late AT-guns (3,7 and 7,5 cm).
7. A sneaky spy.
8. Veterans can be compared to guards but have less men and firepower, can shreck upgrade, are very hard to kill when retreating and have doctrinal bundled grenades or MP44 upgrades.

Becouse every unit has an ability (even 3) the Ostheer will be a difficult army to micro (everyone wants it that way).
Infantry spamming will only be possible with europes support doctrine. Tank spamming will be a bad idea becouse Ostheer has no real medium tanks. PzIII can be defeated by any allied medium tank while Stugs can be easily destroyed by AT guns. Cooperation is needed.

[ThGermanElite]

Honestly, I dont agree with your set-up, you put alot of work into it, kudos for that and there are some really good ideas, but the Ostheer just would be way too weak if the veterancy was run like the Russian vet system, and it just looks way too similar to the Russians. The Ostheer was the most "battle hardened" troops of that time, also, historically, most heavy German tanks saw action in the Eastern Front, they should be like so, just having ability upgrades will really cut down the hype the Ostheer is bringing to CoH and itll be like massing a bunch of Vet 0 Volks with uber weapons, the damage output would be good, but if the opposing force has more health and the same weapons, your troops are toast. I just cant agree at all with the vet system, it makes the Ostheer way, way too weak.

[Paciat]

Honestly, I dont agree with your set-up, you put alot of work into it, kudos for that and there are some really good ideas, but the Ostheer just would be way too weak if the veterancy was run like the Russian vet system, and it just looks way too similar to the Russians. The Ostheer was the most "battle hardened" troops of that time, also, historically, most heavy German tanks saw action in the Eastern Front, they should be like so, just having ability upgrades will really cut down the hype the Ostheer is bringing to CoH and itll be like massing a bunch of Vet 0 Volks with uber weapons, the damage output would be good, but if the opposing force has more health and the same weapons, your troops are toast. I just cant agree at all with the vet system, it makes the Ostheer way, way too weak.

Damn. I tought people would say something like:
"What? Spammambe light MG squads with all these vet abilities and no ammo cost and quad halftracks? That will kill all russian infantry in seconds."
or "Armored skirts on every vet2 tank and zimmerit? This will make allied intantry AT weapons useless"
or "Kubelwagons, radio bunkers, vet 3 Tier I infantry and spies can all spot snipers. Why so many sniper detector units?"
or "Ferdinand and Tiger Ace are super tanks and you can have a normal Tiger I too... OP!"

Dindnt expect anyone to say that it is underpowered.
7,5cm gun emplacements and light forces (MGs) is what historically usually stopped the Soviet forces, not German tanks. Limited breakthru forces are in the late tiers but the heaviest equipment is in the the doctrines. Also German weapons (arti, tank guns, bombing runs) are more accurate.
So ill just change  inf. target(armor) to inf. soldier target at vet 3 for some infantry.

Whats with "most heavy German tanks saw action in the Eastern Front"? Most German equipment saw action in the Eastern Front!

Anyway thanks for the post.

[ThGermanElite]

Honestly, I dont agree with your set-up, you put alot of work into it, kudos for that and there are some really good ideas, but the Ostheer just would be way too weak if the veterancy was run like the Russian vet system, and it just looks way too similar to the Russians. The Ostheer was the most "battle hardened" troops of that time, also, historically, most heavy German tanks saw action in the Eastern Front, they should be like so, just having ability upgrades will really cut down the hype the Ostheer is bringing to CoH and itll be like massing a bunch of Vet 0 Volks with uber weapons, the damage output would be good, but if the opposing force has more health and the same weapons, your troops are toast. I just cant agree at all with the vet system, it makes the Ostheer way, way too weak.

Damn. I tought people would say something like:
"What? Spammambe light MG squads with all these vet abilities and no ammo cost and quad halftracks? That will kill all russian infantry in seconds."
or "Armored skirts on every vet2 tank and zimmerit? This will make allied intantry AT weapons useless"
or "Kubelwagons, radio bunkers, vet 3 Tier I infantry and spies can all spot snipers. Why so many sniper detector units?"
or "Ferdinand and Tiger Ace are super tanks and you can have a normal Tiger I too... OP!"

Dindnt expect anyone to say that it is underpowered.
7,5cm gun emplacements and light forces (MGs) is what historically usually stopped the Soviet forces, not German tanks. Limited breakthru forces are in the late tiers but the heaviest equipment is in the the doctrines. Also German weapons (arti, tank guns, bombing runs) are more accurate.
So ill just change  inf. target(armor) to inf. soldier target at vet 3 for some infantry.

Whats with "most heavy German tanks saw action in the Eastern Front"? Most German equipment saw action in the Eastern Front!

Anyway thanks for the post.

Dont get me wrong, I like his ideas of units, but the veterancy should be different. Look at my idea of vet:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3047.0

[Paciat]

Dont get me wrong, I like his ideas of units, but the veterancy should be different. Look at my idea of vet:

The thing with youre vet is that it it would make StugIII tougher than StugIV. Giving more health to Ostheer than vet grenadieres/stormtroopers/guards have is also a bad idea.
Ostheer cant be OP vs US and UK.

Sure, I know that for every StugIII lost 3 T-34 were destroyed, but wheres balance in that. Also when youll have youre 1st StugIII with a long barrel (7,5cm gun upgrade) Soviet will have 2 T-34 (Soviet overcapping should be fixed). But Ostheer cant have even weak Stugs before US can get a 57mm.

I think a lot of abilities and good accuracy(even at vet 0) is what should differ Ostheer from other fractions. Wehrmacht the is tough fraction, UK defensive, US is about firepower and flanking, PE mobility and counters, Soviets spamming.

I also added tank optics global upgrade so the 1st shot will more likely be German.

[OB3R]

Interesting to see what it will be like, can I suggest 1 shot kills for the ostheers big tanks the 88s easily took out the t34s with 1 shot the SUs will take a few hits but.
OB3R

[Paciat]

Interesting to see what it will be like, can I suggest 1 shot kills for the ostheers big tanks the 88s easily took out the t34s with 1 shot the SUs will take a few hits but.
OB3R

One shot kills sound like one move win. COH is not about 1 shot kills!

[Venoxxis]

Just a smal mark:

there is a "line-mistake" into your concept right at start where you explain your tier system

Regards.

[OB3R]

we also dont like throwing rocks.

[Paciat]

we also dont like throwing rocks.

My point is Ostheer should be the high accuracy lower damage fraction while soviets the oposite.
Of course Tiger will still have its 88mm gun but you wont be able to spam big guns.

[OB3R]

Agreed there should never be more than one Tiger its should always be the last thing you get also.
OB3R