Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Suggestions for Ostheer  (Read 31952 times)

Offline hgghg4

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Suggestions for Ostheer
« on: January 29, 2010, 07:37:05 AM »
**DISCLAIMER**
I do not claim to have came up with all these suggestions as I found a few in here that seemed like a really good idea to me, which may or may not be agreed with. This is just my opinion and I thank everyone who I took the suggestions from. :D


Also when you see #x Units, that is how big the squad is. I enjoy feedback so please give some :D

Built from HQ Building

   Eastern Front Sappers - 3x Units 3x Kar98k 250MP
         -Similar Panzer Elite Grenadiers.
         -Decent armor and attack power.
         -Builds Base buildings.
      Upgrades (2 slots)
      - G43 - 25 Munitions - Gives 1 G43 (Takes up one slot)
      - STG44 - 45 Munitions - Gives 1 STG44 (Takes up one slot)
      - Body Armor- 25 Munitions
         - Increases armor 2x

   Combat Engineers - 4x Units 4x Kar98k 250MP
         - Same health and armor as Pioneers
         - Builds Defenses
         - Needs Eastern Garrison or Grossdeutschland Division

Built from Eastern Garrison

   Osten Grenadiers - 5x Units 4x Kar98k 1x STG44 325MP
         - Strong Elite Infantry
         - Backbone of the Ostheer Infantry
      Upgrades (4 slots)
      -STG44 - 75 Munitions - Gives 2 STG44s (Takes up two slots and requires Grossdeutschland Division)
      -G43 - 50 Munitions - Gives 2 G43s (Takes up two slots)
      -Panzershreck - 75 Munitions - Gives 1 Panzershreck (Takes up two slots and requires Mechanisierten Division)
      Abilities
      - Hand Grenade with Fragmentation Sleeve - 25 Munitions
      - AT Grenade - 35 Munitions

   Light Machine Gun Squad - 3x Units 3x MG34 300MP
         - Strong Mobile firepower
         - Same Armor as PE troops
      Upgrades (3 Slots)
      - MG42 - 50 Munitions - (Takes up one slot)
      Abilities
      - Suppressive Fire - 35munitions
         - Pins at a faster rate
      - Light Defensive Fighting Position (1 Unit slot, 5 Troop maximum)
         - Makes a light sandbag position that can be garrisoned by infantry for heavy cover
         - Can be destroyed at the rate of sandbag walls
         - Neutral when no units are inside

   Sniper - 1x Unit 1x Scoped Kar98k 340MP
         - Similar to the Wehrmacht and American Snipers but can not cloak on roads
      Abilities
      - Counter Snipe (while in buildings, does not work in DFP, Bunkers or Guard Towers)
         - There is a 50% chance that if the Sniper is shot at by another sniper that
           the American Sniper or British Sniper Shot will hit a decoy and be shot in return.
   
   Scout - 2x Unit 1x Dog 2x Kar98k 175MP
         - Has extreme Sniper detection range because of the dog.
      Abilities
      - Rush Sniper
         - The dog Rushes the sniper and forces him to stop firing for a short time while
           the handlers can get in close to force a retreat or kill the sniper
      - Dog Attack - 25 munitions
         - Dog attacks one person in a squad or a revealed sniper and kills the target
      - Sniper Ambush
         - The squad waits in cover and camouflaged until a Sniper walks in the detection radius
           then the Dog attacks causing the Sniper to get suppressed while the men attack.

Built from Grossdeutschland Division

   Pak 40 75mm Anti tank Gun - 4x Units 4x MP40s 350MP
         -Slower then the Pak38 but is more resilient.
      Abilities
      - Ambush
         - Requires not moving and not on roads
      - ACPR Rounds - 50 Munitions
         - Triples armor penetration for 45 seconds

   Light Howitzer 10.5cm leFH18 - 5x Units 5x MP40s 550MP
         - Slower then the other factions mortars, fires slower, has a larger minimum radius
           and but has very high damage almost equal to 105 American Howitzer but can not fire
           freely.
      Abilities
      - Barrage
      - Smoke Barrage
      - Incendiary Barrage (3 Incendiary Shells) - 100 Munitions

   Sdkfz 251 Halftrack - Unarmed Transport - 210MP 25 Fuel
      Upgrades
      - Sdkfz 251/8-1 Armored Ambulance - 50 Munitions
         - Provides a Healing Aurora
      - Sdkfz 251/10 3.7 Pak38 AT gun - 100 Munitions
      - Sdkfz 251/17 2cm Flak Cannon - 75 Munitions

Built from Mechanisierten Division

   Marder II - 7.5cm Pak 40/2 L/48 - 300MP 45 Fuel
      Abilities
      - ACPR Rounds - 50 Munitions
         - Triples armor penetration for 45 seconds
      - Lock Down
         - Increases Accuracy and Fire Rate

   Pzkpfw III Ausf. G - 3.7cm KwK 35/36 L/46.2 - 350MP 40 Fuel
      Upgrades
      - 50mm KwK 38 L/42 - 75 Munitions
         -Increases Armor Penetration
      - Armor Skirts - 50 Munitions
      - MG42 - 75 Munitions
      Abilities
      - Phosphorus Shell with 3.7cm KwK 35/36 - 35 Munitions
      - ACPR Rounds with 50mm KwK 38 - 50 Munitions
         - Triples armor penetration for 30 seconds

   2nd SS Panzer Infantry - 4x Units 4x Kar98k - 475MP
      Upgrades (4 Slots)
      - STG44 - 75 Munitions - Gives two STG44 (Takes up two slots)
      - Panzershreck - 75 Munitions - Gives one Panzershreck (Takes up two slots)
      - Scoped Kar98k - 35 Munitions - Gives one Scoped Kar98K (Takes up two slots)
      Abilities
      - Bundle Grenade - 50 Munitions
      - Satchel Charge - 50 Munitions
      - Magnetic Grenade - 35 Munitions

   StuG III Ausf. F - 7.5cm StuK 40 L/43 - 375MP 50 Fuel
      Upgrades
      - L/48 - 60 Munitions - Increased Armor Penetration
      - Armor Skirts - 50 Munitions
      - MG42 - 75 Munitions

Built from 1st SS Panzer Division

   Jagdpanzer - 7.5cm Pak39 L/48 - 420MP 75 Fuel
      Upgrades
      - Armor Skirts - 50 Munitions
      - MG42 - 75 Munitions
      Abilities
      - Ambush
         - Requires not moving and not on roads
      - ACPR Rounds - 75 Munitions
         - Triples armor penetration for 45 seconds

   Pzkpfw IV Ausf. A - 7.5cm KwK37 L/24 - 450MP 70 Fuel
      Upgrades
      - Armor Skirts - 50 Munitions
      - MG42 - 75 Munitions
      - Pzkpfw IV Ausf. F2 - 125 Munitions
         - Increased Armor and Firepower against Tanks

   Nashorn - 8.8cm Pak 43/1 - 500MP 90 Fuel
                - Has same range as Pak38 but longer reload time and small sight radius.
      Abilities
      -Lock Down
         - Increases Accuracy and Fire Rate
   Tiger - 8.8cm Pak 43/1 (Only with Army Group Center) - 600MP 150 Fuel
      - Only two Tigers at a time.

Built By Eastern Front Sappers

   Eastern Garrison - 250MP 10 Fuel
   Grossdeutschland Division - 300MP 25 Fuel
   Mechanisierten Division (Requires Eastern Garrison or Grossdeutschland Division) - 350MP 35 Fuel
   1st SS Panzer Division (Requires Mechanisierten Division) - 400MP 60 Fuel
   Sandbags
   Barbed Wire

Built By Combat Engineers


   Pillbox - 250 MP
   -Stronger then Wehr Bunker, MG and Pak can rotate 180 degrees side to side
      Upgrades (Two Slots)
      - MG42 - 50 Munitions (Takes up one slot)
         - Both MGs can not fire from the same position
      - PaK 38 50mm AT Gun - 75 Munitions (Takes up two slots)

   Heavy Defensive Fighting Position (3 Unit Slots 12 Max Troops) - 100MP
   - Not as strong as Wehrmact Bunker, made of reinforced sandbags
      Upgrades
      - MG 42 - 75 Munitions
                  - Allows for the occupying units to man the mounted MG42 for increased defense against infantry.

   Tank Bunker (With Army Group Center) - 300MP
   - Builds a concrete bunker around a Tank. Tank becomes immoblized, gains a defensive bonus and looses rear
          armor hit, is reduced to half Population cost and can not be de-bunkered. Call on tanks and non-turreted tanks can not be bunkered.

   2cm Flak Cannon Pit (With Army Group North) - 300MP 30 Fuel
   - More resiliant then Panzer Elite Flakveirling. Sandbag surrounded like British mortar pit and only has one barrel
   - Can not be sniped

   7.5cm Fixed AT Position (With Army Group North) - 400MP 50 Fuel
   - Concrete Bunker with a 75mm Pak40 with a 155 degree Firing arc. Very powerful, but limited arc of fire
   - Can not be sniped or burnt out.
   - Very well armored.

   8.8cm Flak Fixed Artillery (With Army Group South) - 350MP 55 Fuel
   - Placed inside a sand bag bunker and can not be sniped
   - 75% of Range of 105mm Howitzer
   - Incendiary Barrage (4 Incendiary Shells) - 150 Munitions

   Guard Tower - 100 MP
   - Weak wooden structure with 1 unit slot and 5 man capacity
   - Large sight radius.
   - Neutral when no units are inside like a trench.

   Sandbags
   Barbed Wire
   Tank Traps
   Mines
   Outposts
   Light DFPs


Doctrines

   Army Group North
   - Mechanized Infantry and Defensive Support
   Defensive Half
      - 2 CP - Defensive Operations
         - Allows for the building of Flak Cannon Pit
         - Increases HP on Pillbox and HDFP
      - 2 CP - Fortified Outposts
         - Increases HP on outposts and adds a MG34 for Light Infantry Defense
         - Allows for a small Anti Infantry Minefield to be placed around Outposts (Butterfly Bomb Type)
      - 3 CP - Increased Fortifications
         - Allows for the building of the 7.5cm Fixed AT Position
         - Gives Infantry a Defensive Bonus while near a HQ, Pillbox, Flak Pit or AT Bunker.
   Assault Half
      - 2 CP - Assault Squads
         - Gives access to a group of Gebirgsjager Infantry - 550MP
            - Highly skilled marksmen and mountain men that can traverse ground quickly.
         - Allows access to Assault Grenades for 50 Munitions
      - 2 CP - Assault Halftrack - 400MP
         - A halftrack with a dedicated MG42 gunner, Increased armor and HP with the Ability to
               carry 3 Unit Types and a max of 15 Troops and a Flank Speed option for 25 Munitions
      - 4 CP - Panzerwerfer 42 - 450MP
         - A 15cm 8 rocket barrage max call in of 3.
         - High damage, long cool down.

   Army Group Center
   - Anti Tank and Tank Assault
   Defensive Half
      - 2 CP - Hold the Line!
         - Allows Access to Tank Bunker
         - Gives a Defensive Bonus to Infantry near HQ, Tank Bunkers and Pillboxes
      - 1 CP - Advanced Warning
         - Just like for the Defensive Doctrine
      - 5 CP - Ferdinand - 500MP
         - Call in a One Time Heavy Ferdinand Tank Destroyer to hold the line (can not be Tank bunkered)
   Assault Half
      - 3 CP - Surprise Attack - 150 Munitions
         - Tanks and Infantry get a speed Boost, Enemy Infantry get pinned and Tanks get stunned for 10 Seconds
         - Is a Linear ability, only units in the area are affected (Like a Strafe with no damage and a larger area)
      - 1 CP - Light Artillery Strike - 75 Munitions
         - Soften your opponents positions right before you attack! (Can only be Used in Enemy Territory)
      - 4 CP - Tiger Battalion
         - Allows Access to Tiger Production at the 1st SS Panzer Division.

   Army Group South
   - Urban Conflict
   Artillery Command
      - 1 CP - Booby Trap Building
         - Just like Panzer Elite
      - 3 CP - Flak 88 Fixed Artillery Position
         - Allows Access to the 88 Fixed Artillery Position
      - 3 CP - Wespe Self Propelled Artillery - 350MP
         - Max Call in 2
         - Range of upgraded Priests
         - High Damage, long cool down.
   Street Fighting
      - 2 CP - Advanced Street Fighting
         - Give an increased offensive and Defensive Bonus to infantry while fighting in Buildings
      - 3 CP - Firebomb - 150 Munitions
         - Call in a Trio of HE111's to drop lines of 3 Incendiary Bombs
         - Can not be used in Command Sector
      - 4 CP - Railway Artillery Shell - 200 Munitions
         - A single railway shell is launched at the target of your choice causing extremely high  damage to the target area. Only Notification is a high pitched whistle 8 seconds before impact.
         

« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 07:40:28 AM by hgghg4 »

Offline Bauer

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 09:26:41 AM »
I think all suport sohould be for free like a in russian army, vet for ammo, free nades, free arty, Tiger in building for 500MP and 120 Fuel. and trenches for german infrantry.
Propably the next game of relic will be pong, but i'm not sure if they would be able to balance the sides.


Offline Aouch

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 10:28:21 AM »
A few things:
* Squadsize is too big. Seriously, 8 man squads belongs to Conscripts only, German squadsize should be around 4-6.
* In my opinion, waaayy too many units. (Sappers, Pios, where's the difference?)
* Nazi-Germany never used body-armor, at least I can't think of.
* Why dogs? I doubt they were used by any unit besides Feldjäger (MP) and russians for their evil dog-AT-thing.
* Crew size is by far too big. 4 should be the max!
* Why have mobile and stationary heavy weapons?
* AGN needs some ammo-muncher


To sum it up: Tone down the ammount of units and especially the squadsize.
Think also about fighting against them first, then fighting with them.
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

Offline hgghg4

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 07:31:37 PM »
- The largest squad size is 5... That belongs to the Ostengrenadiers, so I don't know where you are getting the 8 man squad size
- as far as unit types go there are 16 non doctrine specific the Americans have 12 Wehrmacht has 16 British have 10 PE have (not counting each type of upgrade) 11? and the russians I won't count because I don't remember them all, but I don't see why the need to tone the unit types down,
- as far as weapon crews, the only one with 5 is the Light Howitzer... they in reality would come with 5-6 people.
- As far as body armor, just trying to add a dynamic to the game russians get it why not these guys.
- As far as Dogs, all sides of the war used them, and literally just for what I am describing them, Patrol and small attack.
- And with Mobile and stationary weapons, you have the choice of using Mobile, less damaging, and less hardy units, but ones that can go into the range of the fight or being on the defensive and be a little bit more powerful.
- As far as having an ammo muncher, What do you have in mind? There are a lot of units that use ammo to upgrade so I didn't see a problem with not having an off map or player ability
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 08:05:02 PM by hgghg4 »

Offline CerealKiller

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 09:20:13 AM »
I like it, dogs will be hard to implement and is not very fitting for a strategy game (but it's really nice in cod), the doctrines could use some rework and what about veterancy? I think they should gain vet from combat like americans or maybe panzer elite it's more fun and realistic that way.

Godknight to you sir.

Offline Bauer

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 04:36:40 PM »
Vet from fight should be great.
Propably the next game of relic will be pong, but i'm not sure if they would be able to balance the sides.


Offline ForceMultiplier

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 06:05:09 PM »
It sounds like you've given this a lot of thought, I like many of your ideas.

I think the key is to make them somehow different to the other axis factions. Given that most of the units will be recycled.

I think one way to make them different is veterancy. I remember reading somewhere on here about gaining veterancy over time for just surviving. Or perhaps gaining verterancy as units die in the squad. (i.e. the survivors are verterans and that reflects on the whole squad due to their experience and leadership.)

Either way it should be exciting! 


Offline hgghg4

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 02:50:05 AM »
As far as Dogs it was just something that I randomly thought as sniper detection seeing I didn't want to reuse units. As for veterancy I was thinking for time in fighting... rather then units killed they gain vet 1 for 1-2 minutes in combat, vet 2 for an additional 3 and vet 3 for an additional 5 minutes, they would get an offensive and defensive bonus because they take so long to vet up

Offline hgghg4

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 03:16:17 AM »
I did some thinking, and instead of the Assault Halftrack for AGN I was thinking a Panzer III Battalion, 3 P3s for 1600MP and 3 CPs and reducing the Panzerwerfer to 3 CPs. How does that sound to everyone?

Offline Kedzie

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 04:25:38 AM »
lol, whatever the Otheer becomes, just please make it compatible with the Soviet army...just like yankee's similar to wermaht, and brit to PE. But i'm sure you were going to do it anyways :P
GREAT JOB ON THE MOD! I LOVE IT! THANK YOU!

Offline guynumber7

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 06:35:13 AM »
Needs more strumtiger and other, not already used german units.

Offline hgghg4

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 09:36:43 AM »
I will post an updated version tomorrow with some changes to the concept.

Offline Bauer

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 12:34:34 PM »
 Nashorn - 8.8cm Pak 43/1 - 500MP 90 Fuel
                - Has same range as Pak38 but longer reload time and small sight radius.
      Abilities

Joke? 8.8cm the same range like a PAK? PAK 38?

Tiger - 8.8cm Pak 43/1 (Only with Army Group Center) - 600MP 150 Fuel
      - Only two Tigers at a time.

Russians dont have limits for IS-2 and no need doctrine for this. So why limit the tigers?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 12:37:01 PM by Bauer »
Propably the next game of relic will be pong, but i'm not sure if they would be able to balance the sides.


Offline Venoxxis

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 01:11:54 PM »
tiger > IS2.
If you take a flighty look at the facts, than you see that just the maingun of the tiger was better. But if you take a closer look, you will see that these tanks (in general, german tanks, yes really even if we dont like nazis) had better communication abilities, and way better aim gadgets. That makes it a way more deadly weapon than the IS2 - at least in realitiy.

INGAME, the main problem is, that noone of the other german faction can built a tank like that. The PE doesnt even have a usaul heavy battle tank, later on they just got their panther group. The Panther is the top high so far for the Wehr as well. Somehow it would be strange to have  a faction which can BUILD Tigers than. I mean, if you just compare the german factions with each other. Thoughts about balance will be coming up ;) what would lil britian do against one hell of tiger tanks? xD

Nevertheless, it would be cool as hell to build that legendary tank.  Finally to have something else than the Panther on top. I guess i will include it in my concept which will come up in a few days.. but somehow they just need to be limited.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 01:20:03 PM by Venoxxis »

Offline Bauer

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Re: Suggestions for Ostheer
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 01:27:33 PM »
"Russians dont have limits for IS-2 and no need doctrine for this. So why limit the tigers?"
All about Tiger limit
Propably the next game of relic will be pong, but i'm not sure if they would be able to balance the sides.