The Wehrmacht in the East (Ostheer)

[Aouch]

OK, it's not very clear. Right now, the Red Army can't capture/recrew heavy weaponry of any faction. The DEVs of course made it into a "feature" of the USSR. I like it, because it helps to balance them a bit.
However, the Ostheer will also not be able to recrew guns, but:

Maybe later in the war, when the Oberkommando has figured out how to pick them up, German soldiers will be able to use the soviet crap to defeat the communists with their own weapons.

I refer to the DEVs when I named the OKH. I know, not everybody gets the "joke"... 

However, please actually read before you post. Oh, look what is also there: 

(Meaning that as long as the Developers haven't fixed recrewing bug for new factions, the Ostheer can't do so.)

why do you want to give the infantry just the Pzb39?

PzB39 is good vs. light armored vehicles. Like T70 and so on. It was never meant to take upon T-34s.
My main idea when I created this concept was:
Strong start(-ing unit), inf that pwns nearly everything (that's what the Landsers are made for), but isn't available in high numbers (due to high costs), so you've to "care" for them (upgrades are gained through vet, so you're units have to survive).
Either play agressive with T2 Motor pool, which gives you access to Pz3, which will kill all vehicles available to enemy at this stage but is fairly vulnerable to at-guns and  can't do shit to heavy armor (and you lack a pak). Or play rather defensive (gun pool), have no tanks or even light vehicles but the best AT-gun in CoH besides the 88 (the PaK40!) and something vs blobs (heavy 3.7cm flak-cannon).
In T3, either play agressiv tank-tactis (tank-pool) or rely on combined warfare with infantry (Landsers are still there and now supported with StuGs, they'll kill really everything on the battlefield) and artillery (105mm Feldhaubitze).

Oh, I'm not finished yet. 

Infantry will of course have something against armor. They can use the Panzerfaust (not the lousy Volx' one though) and the famous Hafthohlladung, which can rip through 140mm of steel. T-34 had around 45mm, though angled, it's useless, cause the mines were planted directly on the armor. Therefore: 75 mun -> Sure T-34/76-kill. 
(Of course only if the enemy will be that dumb to let your infantry that close to the tank. Or the tank is immobilized).

they NEED the Panzerschreck   against the is2 and the t-34

The thing why I don't like the Panzerschreck: It's already part of both "old" Axis-factions. Of course, other things like Pz4 and Pzfaust are also "old", but you can't replace everything.

However thanks for your criticism!
Every kind of feedback, positive or negative, is welcome.


Oh, and I need some help:
* Missing Vet-states for both mortar and Pak36. Suggestions?
* More global upgrades would also be nice...
* Army Group Centre again looks a bit too armor-heavy to me. Any thoughts?

[NakSupport]

Any idea when Ostheer will be added to EF?

[Flyboy]

I really like your idea, although my main fear is that if the Ostheer were to be released exactly like this, then I think it would take quite a long time to get used to them as they seem extremely tactical (like the Panzer Elite).

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Any idea when Ostheer will be added to EF?

Sure; Done when its done.

[Aouch]

I really like your idea, although my main fear is that if the Ostheer were to be released exactly like this, then I think it would take quite a long time to get used to them as they seem extremely tactical (like the Panzer Elite).

Thanks 
However, your "fear" was my main idea. 
Ostheer shouldn't be a faction which every "noob" can play and win with. Also, OH shouldn't be pure mix of WH and PE, unfortunatly, many (retarted) people here seems to wish something along this lines, God knows why...
The Ostheer I suggest is difficult to play and not for noobs since you have to look after your units because they're expensive and normally can only be upgraded through veterancy, so the main goal to win with the Ostheer is to preserve your units and use them "together" to get their full potential (e.g. PaK36->tread breaker->Hafthohlladung->there goes the red crap...)

[Paciat]

Why "Light artillery strike" costs only 75ammo?
Commando and Lts arti costs 125ammo. Only russians can have a cheap arti strike.

Vet concept is good.

Sectorprotection - Sektorensicherung interesting concept but hard to balance. Ostheer would need 10 pathes to balance that.

PzKpfW. 38(t) and JgdPz. 38(t) "Marder III" as reward units?
PzKpfW. 38(t) would be a slower T-17/Hotchkiss. Nobody needs a unit like that.
Marder III - PE has them.

PzKpfW. III Ausf. E/M - J or L version with focused fire would be better than both of these tanks. 340MP/50fuel 420HP same gun as the upgunned Hotchkiss.

StuG III Ausf. E - only if you can make a gun upgrade (long barrel).

leFH 18 18/40 cant have a direct fire ability. 25lbs would then need the same ability.

Field-maintenance - smells like US. Shermans, M-8s, jeeps were easy to repair. German vechicles were not.

Whats with a Finnish Jäger Troops in the army groop north?
Its the Germans that helped Finns on their front. Not the other way around.

I olso dont like the Nord, Mitte, Süd doctrine names.
A doctrine that has planes and elite infantry should be called airborne luftwaffe or commando. Not Nord.
A doctrine that has armored call-ins and field repairs should be called armored breakthru or engineer. Not Mitte.
A doctrine that has entrenched positions and cheap infantry should be called infantry or propaganda. Not Süd.

[WartyX]

A doctrine that has planes and elite infantry should be called airborne luftwaffe or commando. Not Nord.
A doctrine that has armored call-ins and field repairs should be called armored breakthru or engineer. Not Mitte.
A doctrine that has entrenched positions and cheap infantry should be called infantry or propaganda. Not Süd.

But those names have already been taken...

[Aouch]

Thanks for your feedback. 
I'll comment your critizism:

Why "Light artillery strike" costs only 75ammo?
Commando and Lts arti costs 125ammo. Only russians can have a cheap arti strike.
Actually, the arty strike just made it into the concept because I couldn't think of something else which would fit as a veterancy-ability for a sniper.
Vet concept is good.
Thanks, but I wasn't the one who suggested it in the first place.
Sectorprotection - Sektorensicherung interesting concept but hard to balance. Ostheer would need 10 pathes to balance that.
You're right, it's really hard to balance. But again, I ran out of ideas and just copied Lord Rommel's suggestion.
PzKpfW. 38(t) and JgdPz. 38(t) "Marder III" as reward units?
PzKpfW. 38(t) would be a slower T-17/Hotchkiss. Nobody needs a unit like that.
Why not? The 38(t) was used a lot in early war, it's perfect to replace the Pz3, both have nearly the same calibre (3.7cm)
Marder III - PE has them.
PE has the Ausführung M. The Marder I want as reward is the Marder H. There's already a model (at least, there was one) follow the link hidden in the check mark to view it.
PzKpfW. III Ausf. E/M - J or L version with focused fire would be better than both of these tanks. 340MP/50fuel 420HP same gun as the upgunned Hotchkiss.
The reason why I included the E and N: I don't want to have too many different calibres in my concept. Right now, I have only 3.7cm, 7.5, 8.8 and 10.5 for the "big guns". No place for a single lousy 5cm. 
StuG III Ausf. E - only if you can make a gun upgrade (long barrel).
Upgrade to Ausf. G is in the HQ-upgrades.
leFH 18 18/40 cant have a direct fire ability. 25lbs would then need the same ability.
Why not? Because others can't do isn't a valid reason in my eyes. Conscripts also have 0 pop, no other faction has it.
Field-maintenance - smells like US. Shermans, M-8s, jeeps were easy to repair. German vechicles were not.
Yeah, but I can't think of something which would fit here instead of the US-copy.
Whats with a Finnish Jäger Troops in the army groop north?
Its the Germans that helped Finns on their front. Not the other way around.

I olso dont like the Nord, Mitte, Süd doctrine names.
A doctrine that has planes and elite infantry should be called airborne luftwaffe or commando. Not Nord.
A doctrine that has armored call-ins and field repairs should be called armored breakthru or engineer. Not Mitte.
A doctrine that has entrenched positions and cheap infantry should be called infantry or propaganda. Not Süd.
Here I agree with WartyX. We need something new. Three Heeresgruppen and three doctrines, so why not? 

[Flyboy]

Thanks 
However, your "fear" was my main idea. 
Ostheer shouldn't be a faction which every "noob" can play and win with. Also, OH shouldn't be pure mix of WH and PE, unfortunatly, many (retarted) people here seems to wish something along this lines, God knows why...
The Ostheer I suggest is difficult to play and not for noobs since you have to look after your units because they're expensive and normally can only be upgraded through veterancy, so the main goal to win with the Ostheer is to preserve your units and use them "together" to get their full potential...

Yeah I agree with you, I can imagine (if you were playing against the Soviets) that you could get straight into the fighting as both of these factions are strong early-game, but if the Ostheer are more powerful in the early stage as you suggested before, then what advantage do the soviets have?

[guynumber7]

personally i like the PZ3 idea in the "one hell of a concept" topic. your pz3's start with a hotchkiss unupgraded type gun and for individual upgrades that cost fuel, you can give then either long barreled 5cm, great(slightly better then upgraded hotchkiss0 aganist up to medium tanks, or short stubby 75mm like pz4 inf support, altho less armor.

[Aouch]

The problem here is that my Ostheer only allow individual upgrades through veterancy. But allowing the gun to be upgraded without costs doesn't sound right to me.
A global upgrade also wouldn't do the job, because it's global.
Next thing to consider is, that the different Pz3 Ausf. differed a lot from the previous one. For example, compare the Ausf. E the Ausf. J (1) and the Ausf. N.
Last thing is that I don't like the idea at all, sorry. Individual upgrades like this fit better for the old WH or maybe PE.

[Paciat]

The 38(t) was used a lot in early war, it's perfect to replace the Pz3, both have nearly the same calibre (3.7cm)
PzKpfW. III Ausf. E/M - J or L version with focused fire would be better than both of these tanks. 340MP/50fuel 420HP same gun as the upgunned Hotchkiss.
The reason why I included the E and N: I don't want to have too many different calibres in my concept. Right now, I have only 3.7cm, 7.5, 8.8 and 10.5 for the "big guns". No place for a single lousy 5cm. 
Germans cant have an early bulletproof tank becouse UK and US have no AT units till they get a Stuart/57mm.
3,7cm guns wont be usefull in mid game while 5cm guns are a perfect counter to any light armor. 5cm hotchkiss (more powerfull than a Puma) can rear shot-kill an IS-2 (watch it on youtube) so theyll be usefull in late game.

leFH 18 18/40 cant have a direct fire ability. 25lbs would then need the same ability.
Why not? Because others can't do isn't a valid reason in my eyes.
Becouse it would be OP!!! 1 unit could kill half of an attacking enemy blob (like a stuH) and then fire at his base when the survivers retreat to HQ (105 bombardment). No other fraction can overkill like that

I olso dont like the Nord, Mitte, Süd doctrine names.
A doctrine that has planes and elite infantry should be called airborne luftwaffe or commando. Not Nord.
A doctrine that has armored call-ins and field repairs should be called armored breakthru or engineer. Not Mitte.
A doctrine that has entrenched positions and cheap infantry should be called infantry or propaganda. Not Süd.
Here I agree with WartyX. We need something new. Three Heeresgruppen and three doctrines, so why not? 
Nord, Mitte, Süd names are based on history facts but dont say anything about these doctrines. You could call them black, green and red:D. That would be new too.

[hgghg4]

Why can't the german's have an early bullet proof tank? just means someone needs stickies!

[FriendlyFire]

Here's a upgrade you can give to the SdKfz. 11,



It'll be like the American M16Halftrack upgrade,
Big guns, can't carry troops

[guynumber7]

AH yes, the Sdfkz 7/1. Good idea.