Thank you USSR (A little about history)

[Schuultz]

you could also call it Hitlers fault for starting a war and trying to commit genocide?

I don't seem to have put fine enough of a point on it, but I was being sarcastic.

While it is technically correct, you obviously can never blame a defender for resisting.

[spanishfly]

"I wonder why Poland calls itself Central Europe - is it because of the Stigma attached to being "Eastern European"?"

To be honest - I have no idea...I think that we're quite in centre with Czech, Germany and Slovakia, but who cares. Actually I don't feel any bad feelings about Poland being called an eastern country. The most important thing that Poland lost after the II World War was that "eastern" element of it's culture - which was spread on territories taken by the Soviet Union. Of course I realise that huge part of those territories should belong to Ukrainians and Bialorussians - without Lwow, Grodno and Vilnus (actually Vilnus and territories around it are still rather polish than Lithuanian - if it goes to ethnics of course).

"Im from Poland - a country occupied by the soviets untill 1989.
Thanks to soviets there was no freedom for Central Europe."

Well - not everything was bad during the Soviet occupation.
For the first few years after the end of the II WW we created many good, patriotic movies about the war:

Westerplatte (1967)

Westerplatte (1967) part03 [English Subtitles] Polish war movie

It's part 3 of the movie, presenting the defence of Westerplatte in 1939. If someone wants to see the start o the II WW from the polish point of view -  you can watch that .The whole movie is on youtube with english subs.

Of course those movies were full of anti German and western allies propaganda...but who cares - at least it was patriotic Today we are a free country. But who knows why - there are few as patriotic movies as this one.

If it goes to the II World War - it's natural that every country has an individual point of view about that conflict. For Poles it is mainly tragedy and later soviet ocupation, for Ukraine it's the time of it's fight for independecne, for Soviets it's the Great Patriotic War etc.

The truth is that none of those countries could win the war without the help of others. As well as Germans couldn't fight the war without tons of equipment gained in Czechoslovakia ,Poland and France.

[UeArtemis]

Im from Poland - a country occupied by the soviets untill 1989.
Thanks to soviets there was no freedom for Central Europe.

Technically, this was not an occupation.

[spanishfly]

"Technically, this was not an occupation."

He meant Poland under Soviet domination. And technically Soviet Union occupied polish teritorries east of the Curzon Line After that free Lithuania, and semi democratic Ukraine and Bialorussia were created.

As I said returning those territories to Ukraine and Bielarussia was the right thing to do (not counting Lwów and Grodno in 1945), but the biggest mistake, was that polish government did not fight for territories around Vilnus after 1989 - where still there are mostly Poles

[UeArtemis]

Technically, Republic of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania existed before 1991. Moreover, they are ones of the founders of the UN. And calling someone's country semi-democratic is an insult.

Areas that are located east of the line were "incorporated" in these republics, and not occupied. Examples of occupation: Northern France, Poland during World War II. And do not confuse puppet governments and territories under the direct control of the conquerors.

Vilnius is the capital of Lithuania. It is foolish to claim territory near the capital of the neighboring state. Such lands are an integral part of the country.

Lviv... You can read all on the Internet. It's a long story.

[spanishfly]

If it goes to Lviv (Lwów) the case is rather clear - it has beautiful history connected with Poland, it was one of the polish culture centers in the eastern territories - but in 100% it belongs to Ukraine now.

But the status of territories near Vilnus were not as clear in 1990. I'm not saying that NOW Poland should rip off that part out of Lithuania just because in that region, almost 65% of population are Poles. But in 1990 Poland had such a chance - and i think that for our country it would be a smart move.

Well, at least Lithuanians are happy ;p As i said it's always about the point of view ;p

[UeArtemis]

Read about Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia. The fall of this kingdom may be called the first partition of Ukraine.
Lviv was part of many empires, but always was one of the centres of Ukrainian culture and the struggle for independence.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Ukrainians_en.svg - Ukrainian ethnic lands.

I think we seriously deviated from the topic

[spanishfly]

So we're clear on one thing - Lviv was always polish - ukrainian center of culture.

"I think we seriously deviated from the topic "

Yea - we did ;p Let us end it there, ok? And maybe continue via priv Cheers

[CommissarGears]

you could also call it Hitlers fault for starting a war and trying to commit genocide?

I don't seem to have put fine enough of a point on it, but I was being sarcastic.

While it is technically correct, you obviously can never blame a defender for resisting.

Ah, i should not have taken you so seriously, i apologize.

[Paciat]

Soviet soldiers didnt made shoes from human skin. And didnt murder whole sities to the last one survivor. German "heroes" did that. German wonderfull soldiers found good way to discound ammunition - they tied two little child one to another, laughuing and calling it butter-n-broad, and shoot two little heads with one bullet. Yep, very brave and VERY HUMAN.[/b]

Never seen any German wear shoes from human skin.
What "sities" were murdered to the last survivor?
How many willages were hungered to death when the red revolution came?
Youre too much into russian propaganda.
Nobody knows how many mass graves are there in the Soviet Union. We would know if Stalin lost the war.

[guldan]

Soviet soldiers didnt made shoes from human skin. And didnt murder whole sities to the last one survivor. German "heroes" did that. German wonderfull soldiers found good way to discound ammunition - they tied two little child one to another, laughuing and calling it butter-n-broad, and shoot two little heads with one bullet. Yep, very brave and VERY HUMAN.[/b]

Never seen any German wear shoes from human skin.
What "sities" were murdered to the last survivor?
How many willages were hungered to death when the red revolution came?
Youre too much into russian propaganda.
Nobody knows how many mass graves are there in the Soviet Union. We would know if Stalin lost the war.

"Hunchback only isprivit tomb ..." And now for a couple of other sites and photos:


http://www.warmuseum.kiev.ua/eng/z6.shtml

 

[Paciat]

Soviet soldiers didnt made shoes from human skin. And didnt murder whole sities to the last one survivor. German "heroes" did that. German wonderfull soldiers found good way to discound ammunition - they tied two little child one to another, laughuing and calling it butter-n-broad, and shoot two little heads with one bullet. Yep, very brave and VERY HUMAN.[/b]

Never seen any German wear shoes from human skin.
What "sities" were murdered to the last survivor?
How many willages were hungered to death when the red revolution came?
Youre too much into russian propaganda.
Nobody knows how many mass graves are there in the Soviet Union. We would know if Stalin lost the war.

"Hunchback only isprivit tomb ..." And now for a couple of other sites and photos:


http://www.warmuseum.kiev.ua/eng/z6.shtml

Still cant see any Germans wear shoes from human skin or
whole "sities" murdered to the last survivor.
But I know an army that raped everything on their way. The red army. Many of them didnt know what a toilet is.

[spanishfly]

Red Army in Przyszowice, 27.I.1945, Poland.

Memories of Jan Rzymelka:

"My mother and grandmother escaped deep into tje villiage. Grandfather was too sick to leave their house so he stayed. After the Russians stole everything what could be sold, they decided to burn the house down with my Granfather inside.

Later my friend Franciszek with a white flag went to talk with Russians - they shot him right away."

Memories of Eufemia Swoboda:

"Russians forced me to watch how they execute my grandson and my neighbours. Each of them was on the ground and two Soviet soldiers were standing on their hands. The third one was shooting the victims in the neck."

Russians burned down 70 houses in the village. And killed many survivors who escaped from Auschwitz and decided to hide in Przyszowice.

Later Soviets claimed that they thought that this was a German villiage. But somewhat they didn't heard how the victims were begging for life in polish.

[Aouch]

Russians burned down 70 houses in the village. And killed many survivors who escaped from Auschwitz and decided to hide in Przyszowice.

Later Soviets claimed that they thought that this was a German villiage. But somewhat they didn't heard how the victims were begging for life in polish.

When the Communists and Soviet Russia did this to Polish People, you could imagine what unbelievable crimes Red Army commited in Germany.

@guldan: Is there also at least one room in this museum which honors the resistance against Soviet Regime?

Those, who made things like shoes out of jewish skin were never real Nazis.  In fact they were mad scientiest who "took the chance", worked for the Nazis and made the most cruel experiments mankind ever saw.
But don't think that this didn't happen in USSR, too. Germany lost the war and Allies found out what they did and now everybody knows it, so this could (hopefully) never happen again. USSR never "lost" the cold war, so noone dug out what they did.

[UeArtemis]

The true about Soviets in Germany.