Thank you USSR (A little about history)

[Aouch]

Hitler killed 25 million people and Stalin more than this? Who the hell stayed in USSR after this two mass murdering?

Sorry, but I doubt that Hitler killed 25 million people in the Soviet Union. The total loss was 23,954,000.
About 10 million soldiers, thus the rest were civilians.
That includes of course maybe over 10 million who died because of Stalin.

Also, the total population of the USSR in these times was 168,500,000

[guldan]

I myself from the Ukraine. And read the raving, about the hunger of an alien to me a shame! And if someone does not like Stalin, it is his personal opinion (even if he keeps with him)!
And about the repressions it was the power in our countries and do not you discuss it! And to compare the USSR with the Nazis is to be schizophrenia, I ask the moderators to close these threads that would not translate the forum su framework of the political game!

[BATTERIES]

Im from Ireland , so neutrality during the war means I have a non biased outlook , except for the fact that I dont like the british.
In my opinion , Stalin was a mass murderer and no better than hitler.
In this day and age you might think the purges, or death marches etc , "IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN NOW". Well the fact that russian people voted stalin the 3rd most admired man... it just shows how far russia has come from those days.
The misery that was spread by stalin and the communist regime for half a century cannot be brushed under the carpet , yes this is ww2 but what about the millions of people opressed , afraid to speak out , murdered by secret police for the next 40 years after?
Someone said earlier, are the russian people stupid to admire stalin?
I cant judge someone for their beliefs but , to admire the man who orchestrated the murder of your grandfathers , its dispicable.

[luz777]

@Gouldan: Why should the thread be closed? Nobody is flaming each other, just a discussion, if anything is to happen to this thread, maybe move it to the offtopic section.

Why is it so-called Schizophrenia to compare the USSR to the Nazis, look at something called the politcal compass and you'll see how the Extreme Right (Nazis) and Extreme Left (Stalinism) practically converge with each other. The only difference (more or less) is economic policy.

I've not bought into any kind of McCarthyist cold-war propaganda about the USSR and Communism in general. But when your having to bump off people left right and centre, whether thats because of their race, class or just the fact they disagree or pose a threat to you I'd say you've pretty much failed as a politician and leader of a country.

Just my opinion though, I'm sure people will disagree, thats what forums are for though, sharing views 

@Batteries: Aww, I'm British, y u no liek mee? 

Cheers

[BATTERIES]

@Batteries: Aww, I'm British, y u no liek mee? 

Cheers

Because ye were a bunch of wankers to us for about 800 years , but I think we have put that behind ourselves. 

[luz777]

Aye to be honest I agree with ya.

Bloody Henry VIII...grumble grumble

[CommissarGears]

I really dislike this idea that because your country lost more people in a war your country was somehow more involved in it, or deserve more credit for it.  Its like giving somebody the first place trophy for being last place in a race.  Its not really an acheivment of any sort, and its sort of disrespectul to those who did sacrifice themselves for their cause.

 

[guldan]

In my opinion , Stalin was a mass murderer and no better than hitler.

Not better than Gitle! What kind of expression. luz777 you do not understand for the peoples of the Soviet Union during World War II was, it was part of survival! Because of Hitler's plans for all Slavs must be destroyed! And mass murder is compared with your crusade to the glory of the Lord baby talk!

Im from Ireland , so neutrality during the war means I have a non biased outlook , except for the fact that I dont like the british.
In my opinion , Stalin was a mass murderer and no better than hitler.

BATTERIES You write that you are not biased - but not impartial (even dead because they were still alive when they were biased). A statement better than Stalin, Hitler, Nazism is, delivered from it! I'm not communists, and not to the hen they will not. But Nazism is evil in its purest form.
In Kiev, the Museum of World are stored the results of Nazism - a glove made of human skin, soap from human bone.

[luz777]

"And mass murder is compared with your crusade to the glory of the Lord baby talk!" I've no idea what your getting at here but I'm not American...or even religious, so... 

Yes, I would argue that I do understand, I know full well the horrors that went on in the USSR during world war two. Just because I'm not from the former soviet union doesn't mean I'm wrong. It was about survival your right, Hitler wanted to wipe out Western Russia and settle Germans there, Lebensraum and all that. But Stalin would probably have moved against Germany if Barbarossa had not happened.

There were atrocities commited by both sides because they were two authoritarian states striving to become superpowers, each one preached the destruction of the other. It was bound to happen. And tragic for the millions of people who happened to be caught between the two.

By saying this were not belittling what happened in Russia and Eastern Europe, you just can't justify the whole of the wrongs of the Soviet Union because of what happened in WWII.

The Revolution and establishment of the USSR could have been a chance to genuinely create a better society, instead it replaced one old order with another just as bad. It was the Bolsheviks who were the first to legitimize the sort of political violence used by many axis nations in the 30's and 40's.

Rant rant rant 

[spanishfly]

Once again - where is the difference?

Hitler was killing jews - just because they were jewish

Stalin was killing polish officers  -just because they were polish officers
..............................................................................

Both were brutal murderers - and that's the fact

[Loupblanc]

Looks like the americans are always trying to defend theyselves against offenses. Im not here to offend anyone. I like america and i like his participation in WW2. Except the atomic bomb, pherhaps...

I dont inted to say, Stalin was good. Just as a great leader, not as a great human.

Anyway, its like i said, there is a lot of lies about he.

Hitler killed 25 million people and Stalin more than this? Who the hell stayed in USSR after this two mass murdering?

25 + 25 (or more) = 50

50 million people?

Some russian here can aswer that for us?

 ... I don't usually use the quote thing, and I'm busy
 talking on the phone, and I haven't finished reading
 this whole thread. But I... arrg...
 
 *Spanish Fly* Awesome man Couldn't have said it
 better xcept I'll even add more to it. Stalin BANKERED
 Hitler, gave him money, ressources, and places to TRAIN
 his tank tactics. Guderian became a god, THERE!.

  Stalin made lots of deals/co joined attacks, etc
 Attack on Poland was simultaneous two side affair.
 Finland, and (Lituania? forgot name of 3 countries)

 - Stalin helped CREATE Hitler, banking on idea Hitler
 would soften up Europe, and when he would be busy,
 rush in and retake Europe in one fell swoop, saving
 Europe from 'his' Hitler, as a hero... xcept not giving any
 of it back

 Hitler beat him at his own game. Very infuriating to Stalin:)
 Churchill couldn't have said it better. 'When we were in
 trouble, you sat and did nothing. Now that Hitler is at
 YOUR throat, your sit and squeal like piglets wanting to
 ward off slaughter'

 * Leo :
 Looks like the americans are always trying to defend theyselves against offenses ...?
 How do you think you started this whole thread?

 Hitler killed 25 million people and Stalin more than this? Who the hell stayed in USSR after this two mass murdering?

 Actually, Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler
 ever did

 Stalin a hero? A great leader of men? He was ruthless, yes.
 But not a great leader of men. Actually, right as victory
 for Soviet Union became clear, he squashed his own
 General's powers, before they become too much 'heroes'
 (that might threaten his own power). One well known
 hero (Zhukov?) quietly went into obscurity about then.
 
 Anyhow, just ranting right now, I'm on the phone and not
 making much sense, but @#!(*@$ !!!
 
 I *DO* agree, though, that
 1) Soviet Union did help much bringing down Hitler
 (Which they helped create in the first place)
 (Xcept it blew up in their faces and they screamed for help)
 But they could NOT have done it on their own.
 
 American/British D-Day intervention urgency YES was
 spurred by Soviet Union starting to win and the resulting
 rapid collapse of Nazi Germany - Before Soviet Union got
 all of Europe (Remember, Soviet Union did not 'give back'
 Territory after 'liberating' it).

 I'm fine with Russian people, even German people.
 It's their leaders that were power-addicted homicidal 
 maniacs.
 
 Stalin : A single death is a tragedy, a million death is
 a statistic

 But, yea, I will give Stalin ONE thing.
 He truly is the man of Steel. He kept his cool under
 pressure more than any OTHER man would have in the
 circumstances, and he was able to turn things around.

 I don't know of any other man who could take such
 a powerful kick in the balls, and could still stand firm
 and then turn things around. Woah.

[Zerstörer]

Someone has been reading too much positive history I think...http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6937923.ece

America was waching two of his enemies destroying each other

Perhaps you're forgetting the lend lease aid program that saved the UK and Russia pretty much from the start. The material provided by the US that kept both these countries in the war.
Something the soviets never fully paid back either...You might wanna look this up.

And it wasn't really their war to begin with. this was the the usual European conflict that erupts from time to time be it Napoleon, Hitler or whoever

The Soviets didn't win the war and neither did the Americans. It was 'The Allies', meaning everyone (ok maybe not the french...just kidding!) who fought against the Axis won the war.

As for Stalin/Hitler...2 faces of the same coin. It's just hard for the Russians to accept that in those hard years of bitter war, they were being led by someone who was no better than Hitler in reality and was infact just as responsible for what they went through.
What is that line again?
'He may be a dirty son of a bitch....but he is OUR son of a bitch!'

[Crowsabove]

I'm just sick of the stupid american comment that is constantly thrown around anymore. I have no problem with someone pointing out how much the eastern front is warped by movies for entertainment or how much the soviets contributed bc the eastern front has always been very interesting to me.

im sure if i came on and posted something about how the west won the war and stupid ruskies just know crap from commie propaganda youd "defend yourself against offences"

And bc i think you might run with it im going to clarify the fact that my example does not mean i think the allies won the war by themselves.

Besides stalin was pretty much gonna attack anyway hitler just started the fight early.

[EasyWinHunt3r]

we all should say that both allys and soviets defeated the nazis but it's a fact that the russians had payed an higer price the war, we also dont have to forget the british forces who incredibly managed to defend not only the UK but also the colonies in africa, asia and also helping countries like greece by the italian invasion.

The germans had absolutely the most incredible army of the period, great generals a huge firepower, an incredible organization and also a modern concept of war. Probably if operation Barbarossa/ Unternehmen Barbarossa didn't took place Europe will surely be diffrent..

like eating Bratwurst, speaking german, not worring about European elections, and live in one country (EU? no..Germania!) 
but luckly for us Europeans this is Sci-Fi (with all respect for nowadays germany, my favourite country )

[Schuultz]

like eating Bratwurst, speaking german, not worring about European elections, and live in one country (EU? no..Germania!) 
but luckly for us Europeans this is Sci-Fi

Just give it a couple of years 

I'm kidding of course, but what Zerstoerer said is 100% true. There was no one nation that defeated the Axis (which wasn't one nation, either, even though Germany was dominant).
If it hadn't been for Lend/Lease, neither Britain nor Russia would have been able to defeat Germany.

The United States had never been neutral, though, they had just been observing, trying to make the highest profit without having to actually fight, be it WWI or WWII.

However, if it looked like their favorite (Britain in WWII, France & Britain in WWI) was about to lose they joined.

In WWI they joined when Germany defeated Russia and was about to move hundreds of thousands of troops from the East to the West. This would have been the manpower needed to defeat France and Britain. However, it was at this point that the US chose to join - they had invested Millions (if not Billions) of Dollars into the Triple Entente.
Had they lost, there would have been no way the Entente would have ever been able to pay back those debts, so they joined the war on their side to make sure Germany lost.

In WWII, the same thing happened again: Because British men were off fighting the Axis, it was the Americans (and Canadians) who made a fortune lending money and selling supplies to them for just that money.

Then, in December 1941 Pearl Harbour happened and the US joined the war - interestingly enough exactly during the Battle of Moscow, when it looked as if Germany was about to defeat the Soviet Behemoth.
Had they achieved this, there would have been no way Britain could have continued its war effort, even with US supplies, and it would have had to sue for peace.

In conclusion: While it is very true that it was the Soviets, Poles and British who did most of the fighting, killing and dying in WWII (On the Allied side, that is), it was most definitely the United States who chose which side was going to win or lose.

They just took their time because they wanted to make as much of a profit out of the war as possible...

Gotta love the USA