Italians

[PSIHOPAT]

Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".

This is a mod for WW2,and game balance is important,but also very important are real facts,recorded in history.

If is NO interest to represent factions in the best accurate way,and is made just in hurry,or without care/attention,some people with family members who has been involved in that events,will be insulted.

Funny movies or games are another thing than games with WW2 subject.This mod represent in limited ways,struggle for life between thousand of poor souls caught in the "nightmare" called World War.

Always this type of games send a message,and will be nice if is made with the best compromise between history/reality,and balance...with the care to not throw insult in anyone.

[Bauer]

Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".

A very good reason

[Sovereign]

Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".

This is a mod for WW2,and game balance is important,but also very important are real facts,recorded in history.

If is NO interest to represent factions in the best accurate way,and is made just in hurry,or without care/attention,some people with family members who has been involved in that events,will be insulted.

Funny movies or games are another thing than games with WW2 subject.This mod represent in limited ways,struggle for life between thousand of poor souls caught in the "nightmare" called World War.

Always this type of games send a message,and will be nice if is made in with the best compromise between history/reality,and balance...with the care to not throw insult in anyone.

Two words, video game

I couldn't careless if the uniforms are somewhat miss or if they try to make this into a pro war mod they have every right to interpret it as they will as long as its within reason.

Even if they go so far as to make them an entire new faction as long as its balanced and the gameplay is smooth. Nothing else truly matters.

[PSIHOPAT]

It matters.

Why this game can't use real german symbol?

Answer=>because is a delicate problem that....and in germany,is prohibited to use that word,to write it on the walls,or to paint them.

Anyway....moderators have the option to choose...if have respect for history or all heroes and deaths...or don't care and spit in that direction.

 

[Schuultz]

Wow, calm down. You're taking this way too seriously.

Tragedy + Time = Comedy. It's a simple reality.

If everybody always took everything as serious as you seem to do, humanity would have probably already collectively committed suicide out of depression.

Company of Heroes - and with it, this Mod - is entertainment. That means that some things are going to be exaggerated, untrue, modified, adjusted, etc.

If you want history, read a history book. This is entertainment. At one point or another, the developers will always come across an intersection where they'll have to choose between history and fun - and any good developer will choose fun.

Because that's what Games are about. Live with it.

[PSIHOPAT]

I told just to be kept some accuracy from the history,and not to be a comedy,how you say.

And that for few good reasons .

That is all.

[HyperSniper999]

I told just to be kept some accuracy from the history,and not to be a comedy,how you say.

And that for few good reasons .

That is all.

I'm sure it's historical for Nazi National flags to be draped from HQ's and buildings inatead of a Kriegsmarine flag (which is innaccurate, as they too had a Swastika in the ring and an Iron Cross in the upper left corner).

I've said this before and I'll say it again; I hate it when people feel like they need to sugar-coat some things and use euphenisms to make Jews and German Government officials happy, it was history, live with it. You're the reason why we'll have another Holocaust.

[Aouch]

Take it easy, man.
I once take it also that serious as you (Spaniards), but calm down.
This is a freaking video-game after all. If people are about to learn history from video-games (and hollywood-movies, btw), we'll be doomed anyway.

I'm sure we all admit the benefit of Romanian troops and admit their incredible power and so on...
But please don't freak out about such a childish topic like those fucking swastikas.
Somebody has to be Nazi or even worse if he cares that much in having them in a video-game.

Look at those ******* people playing SS thinking they're somekind of "cool". Then you'll get what I mean...

Look at those ******* people playing SS

[HyperSniper999]

Take it easy, man.
I once take it also that serious as you (Spaniards), but calm down.
This is a freaking video-game after all. If people are about to learn history from video-games (and hollywood-movies, btw), we'll be doomed anyway.

I'm sure we all admit the benefit of Romanian troops and admit their incredible power and so on...
But please don't freak out about such a childish topic like those fucking swastikas.
Somebody has to be Nazi or even worse if he cares that much in having them in a video-game.

Look at those ******* people playing SS thinking they're somekind of "cool". Then you'll get what I mean...

Look at those ******* people playing SS

No way are those SS.
Also, you children don't understand the differance between WAFFEN SS and the "POLITICAL SS". The Waffen were field troops and the forefront of German military campaigns at the time, nothing is wrong with them. The Political side of the SS is the one to blame for carrying out the Holocaust and guarding Nazi officials.

[Schuultz]

No way are those SS.

It's Reenactors playing SS. And making a grave mistake by singing the Tanker's song.

Also, you children don't understand the differance between WAFFEN SS and the "POLITICAL SS". The Waffen were field troops and the forefront of German military campaigns at the time, nothing is wrong with them.

Actually, especially during the early war, there was a significant overlap of regular SS members who joined the Waffen SS to fight. While this got less and less as the war went on, it's still true.
Also, Waffen SS units were preferably used for Anti-Partisan actions, which by contemporary German doctrine meant taking and killing hostages (according to the 10 for 1 rule established by the Italians in Africa), burning down entire villages to deny the Partisans food & shelter and executing anybody suspected of supporting/being a partisan.
Waffen SS members would also immediately execute captured Jews and Bolsheviks, rather than wait for Einsatzgruppen.

The Political side of the SS is the one to blame for carrying out the Holocaust and guarding Nazi officials.

Waffen SS (and to a much lesser extent, Wehrmacht) would regularly be used by Einsatzgruppen to seal of and clear ghettos. They would also sometimes be used as security detail for Einsatzgruppen when those committed massacres outside the Concentration Camps.

Additionally, wounded Waffen SS members would be used as Concentration Camp guards during their rehabilitation, though they were generally considered less sadistic than the non-German Handschar that was usually reserved for that. It was also considered unhonorable work, and many of them did there best to get transferred back to their unit or somewhere else as quickly as possible. But still.

[3y Gvardeyskiy Mechanized]

The SS existed. Period. That doesn't mean that they were good, or anything like that, but they did exist. What was the point of fighting a war to end the atrocity that was the Holocaust if we just hide the facts. We have to learn from history. And Aouch, just calm down. Just because someone wants a historically accurate symbol in a game does not mean they are a Nazi. Personally, I don't care whether or not the Ostheer has swastikas. For me, the more historical accuracy, the better. But if people are going to go into cardiac arrest over a f*cking symbol (excuse the language), then just keep it out. Sorry for the rant, just my 2 cents.

[HyperSniper999]

To be honest, I don't get why people get worked up about Swastikas, either. They were a good luck symbol in India and Tibet. What? Are we going to see four leaf clovers or rabit feet as a sign of evil after an oppressive, genocidal regime happens to use them on their flag?

[Schuultz]

Are we going to see four leaf clovers or rabit feet as a sign of evil after an oppressive, genocidal regime happens to use them on their flag?

Short Answer: Yes

Of course the Swastika wasn't invented by the Nazis and has had different significance to different cultures at different times.

But we live in the Western culture in the 21st century, and for us, the Swastika has become associated with Nazism, Racism and the Holocaust.

There are three main reasons why a lot of people prefer to avoid the Swastika in their games, even if they are set during WW2:

1) Respect for other people's sensitivities. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who are offended by the display of Swastikas in a Game. They believe the subject matter to be too serious and that a video game, in which you really defy all history (no matter how 'realistic' the game attempts to be), isn't the appropriate medium for it.
You might not be offended, but respect the fact that other people might.

2) Foresight. The developers usually do not wish to see a large part of their community consisting out of Nazis, White Supremacists, etc - it's bad PR. The ability to play as Nazis under the Swastika somehow tends to magically attract these kinds of folks.
Sure, they can always mod the game so that they do get Swastikas anyway, but then the developer can point at just that. It's not their problem then.

3) Legal reasons. There are several countries in which Swastikas are banned symbols, most notably of course Germany and Austria.
Together they alone have a GDP (PPP) of $US 3.25 Trillion - that's a significant market.
Therefore, almost every Game that includes a Swastika has to have it removed and replaced in the respective countries. This is an additional (though) minor strain on the Art resources of the Developer, and most of the developers consider the necessity of including the symbol as so negligible that, alongside the other reasons, they just choose to avoid including it in the first place.

[ford_prefect]

uhh explain what the last 20 posts had to do with the title "Italians"
to get us back on start here:
I would personaly like to see Italy play a minor role as a back up call in for the German Ostheer. OR perhaps as a minor unit. Perhaps only a certian number of them can be built like three squads or so? They should be tough but at the same point weak. They should have weaker guns, but be good at other things. They should have many new kinds of things ( if any of you have played the Mare Nostrum mod for RO you would know what I mean)

[SauerKRAUT]

"Italians were a joke"
no they are not they are good soldiers.
"This thread makes me lol..."
you being a jack ass and a prick does not help.

I was not saying Italians in general were bad they just were not exactly in love with Mussolini so morale was weak much of the time and their anti/tank quality was subpar although their fighter aircraft were some of the best for a good amount of the war. Italy just was not ready for the production demands of ammunition or equipment. Hence why Mussolini actually asked Hitler to hold the offensives for another year or so to prepare.