[1.72]SU vs PE

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

The last test games showed that there is no problem when red army had no more tank hunters.
U got early enough anti tank (anti tank gun or "something" different) power to counter a half track or an armoured car.

[Dreamerbg]

U can start the game with building T2 and unlock the AT gun , so you have AT on the field from 1st game minute if you want...

[Joshua9]

ah, I see,

cool!  look forward to it, thanks

[krupp steel]

It's sad that more and more units are being removed from EF during these last few patches.

[neox88]

When u need anti tank rifles u can still play Propaganda-doctrine and call-in navalguards. This guys can still be equipped with PTRDs.

yeah, but you need to upgrade them, and that cost precious amunition!and not to mention they are doctrine optional, so if you choose other doctrine, you dont have luxury of calling these guys, not to mention that they die like flies in comparison to tank hunters, they are just weaker...

[neox88]

U got early enough anti tank (anti tank gun or "something" different) power to counter a half track or an armoured car.

for example?throwing antitank grenades to light vehicles is not always working since they are darn to fast, and even that costs ammo...

[neox88]

You're getting rid of Tank Hunters!??!?!?!

What is this blasphemy?

Jupp. Tank hunters are too weak and have no chance to fight armour. The system was changed.
Russian Strelkys will use anti tank grenades. Combination of a "tank stun grenade" - used by your infantry -
will allow your ZiS-anti tank gun to deal with enemy's armour.
When u need "strong anti tank infantry" u can play propaganda doctrine with naval guards.

what?I use tank hunters most of the time,and ]this is just not true at all, tank hunters are great vs light vehicles,marders, even tanks like stugs when they are upgraded. I even destroyed a panther with 3 squads of tank hunters! 3 or 4 tank hunter squads (upgraded) are serious threat for all enemy armour!they can just blast light tanks and vehicles into shreads very easily!Also,they are cheap, and definetely much much better than idiotic american rangers that cant hit anything,they are just awful anti tank infantry..anyway, if you think that tank hunters are weak, then make them a bit stronger, kicking them out of the game is just not good.

You almost completle explain why they are OP and why its a good call to remove them 

are you reading these comments?they are removing them because they are "too weak vs armour" not too strong...my point was that they are good as they are and they have important purpose in the game..

[neox88]

It's sad that more and more units are being removed from EF during these last few patches.

+ 1

[neox88]

But at 2 command points, that's not a solution against the infantry halftrack rush.  You aren't likely to even have 1 cp by that point in the game, so your only bet is to get as fast an at gun as possible. I don't kow that this is bad neccessarily, but it does really seem to lock in your tech choices in this matchup.  This will basically be the same and only path against a potential fast armored car.  And there's no such thing as stall teching to a t-70 as a counter because it takes longer to get to than the american m-8, by which time the damage should be done.

good point +1

[Pac-Fish]

U can start the game with building T2 and unlock the AT gun , so you have AT on the field from 1st game minute if you want...

Yeah but who starts a game with only AT guns and a CS? You will die very fast. And you could get snipers but buying sniper and at gun is expensive, and you are very vulnerable if u mess up or lose one.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

5 posts in 7min? Editing post no.1 wasnt possible? 

About the anti tank value of the red army:
Like i said; Red army had a lot of anti tank power. The ZiS is one of the strongest early available hard counters. A fast tank hall rush will give u acces for a T-70 or a Su-76 against enemy's armor. And 2 doctrines had lot ep cost anti tank call ins (like the naval guards or the Su85/KV-1).
Removing the tank hunters was decided by our "head balance" devs.
In future u will use the basic combination of at gun ans strelky to defeat enemy's armor.
How this will work; well... we will show u - - - later

And keep in mind; we can implement the tank hunters again when we see that they are really needed.
At the moment all pvp battle we fought or analysed (replay uploads) showed that tank hunters are redundant.

[Dreamerbg]

Who said that the only one change is removing Tank Hunters...
Guys calm down 

[neox88]

5 posts in 7min? Editing post no.1 wasnt possible? 

About the anti tank value of the red army:
Like i said; Red army had a lot of anti tank power. The ZiS is one of the strongest early available hard counters. A fast tank hall rush will give u acces for a T-70 or a Su-76 against enemy's armor. And 2 doctrines had lot ep cost anti tank call ins (like the naval guards or the Su85/KV-1).
Removing the tank hunters was decided by our "head balance" devs.
In future u will use the basic combination of at gun ans strelky to defeat enemy's armor.
How this will work; well... we will show u - - - later

And keep in mind; we can implement the tank hunters again when we see that they are really needed.
At the moment all pvp battle we fought or analysed (replay uploads) showed that tank hunters are redundant.

yeah, but i was going like read/answer, read/answer kind of way  but i ll try to put this answer in one post  I just hate seeing a good balance unit like tank hunters ( at least in my eyes) just go away without any good reason(haven t seen one so far). Tank hunters are as strong as the player who plays with it, not Op(weak vs infantry) or Up(strong vs armor) as i see it.  I dont know, i rest my case, i said everything...i m really interested to see how will this effect the balance of the game...

[krupp steel]

No tank hunters mean no non-doctrinal infantry AT.  I don't like being forced to go Propaganda just for their infantry AT.  It's just like removing the Panzerschreck upgrade for Wehrmacht Grenadiers.  If that did happen, Wehr would need to go blitzkrieg for Stormtroopers to get schrecks.  Ofcourse Schreck is much more effective than PTRD at tank hunting so I would understand why that would never happen but you get the point I'm trying to make.  You know.  A better picture and understanding.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

The USA has no tank hunter too
And it works with the USA.
Think no one will tell me that USA cant counter enemy's armour.