German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

[bastex]

did you read the whole thing ?...

he germans used the Cointet-elementen through europe as blockade on roads bridges and on the beaches on the northsea.

aka the west ...

[Aouch]

My Ostheer concept: (Lord Rommel's concept with some ideas/changes from my side  )

Look here.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Sorry man, but i dont like some of your improvents 

HQ

• Kübelwagen - Fast recon vehicle. Unarmed.  - Okay. With or without MG - i like the Kübel and so i want to see this unit in a mod.

HQ of the Infantry

• Landserzug - 5 soldiers armed with 5x Kar98k. Standard-infantry of the Ostheer. Upgrades: G43 (Squad is armed with 5x G43) or Panzerfaust. Abilities: Fire Panzerfaust (need upgrade "Panzerfaust"), Throw grenade (unit throws a Stielhandgranate)
  - the keypoint here were the 2(!) Panzerfaust-Gunners. When two Gunners use a Panzerfaust at the same time for the same target this squad gets a high priority in the late game against the heavy enemies.

HQ of the Panzertroups

• SdKfz. 124 "Wespe" - Self-propelled artillery vehicle with a 105mm howitzer.
  - okay. could realy be placed here ( chanbe with the Brummbär ).
• - Marder II - lowpriced tankhunter

- You need a second unit here at the defensiv pool because you need time to switch the unitpool and without tankhunter here you could get big trouble when the enemy had a big tankforce.

Festungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )

• Here i prefer my old version, because with this doctrin you should simulate the story and battles of the Festungen at the eastern front and especially the battles of the german fronttowns. The bunkers where the heavy defense against the enemy and battlegroups of kingtiger and Aufallstruppen should start heavy counterattacks.
  

Horrdio Rommel.

[/list]

[Aouch]

- the keypoint here were the 2(!) Panzerfaust-Gunners. When two Gunners use a Panzerfaust at the same time for the same target this squad gets a high priority in the late game against the heavy enemies.
Mhhh, I see the problem. Maybe change "Men against tanks!", so two Panzerfausts are fired when this upgrade was purchased and also having the ability for (some) infantry to throw "Geballte Ladungen".
Firing Panzerfausts for free has to go for that. So no excessive panzerfaust-spamming.

• SdKfz. 124 "Wespe" - Self-propelled artillery vehicle with a 105mm howitzer.
  - okay. could realy be placed here ( chanbe with the Brummbär ).

Actually I changed that only for naming reasons. STURMpanzer as a defensiv unit? Sounds a bit strange...  However, I think having the "your way", with Brummbär as defensiv unit is still the best decision.

• - Marder II - lowpriced tankhunter

- You need a second unit here at the defensiv pool because you need time to switch the unitpool and without tankhunter here you could get big trouble when the enemy had a big tankforce.
A second unit, OK. For tankhunter, see my comment below.

Festungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )

• Here i prefer my old version, because with this doctrin you should simulate the story and battles of the Festungen at the eastern front and especially the battles of the german fronttowns. The bunkers where the heavy defense against the enemy and battlegroups of kingtiger and Aufallstruppen should start heavy counterattacks.
  

´[]Different opinions here. You're for heavy fortifications and even heavier tanks, while I think light/improvised defenses and anti-tank-tactics are enough.

My concept of the Ostheer isn't really a concept. The one who chose the Ostheer as faction should IMO don't get too strong units (except Ferdinand), but also no real weak ones.
When the heavy allied tanks appear, he has to rely on infantry-anti-tank-tactics (Panzerfaust, Mines, Charges etc.) and of course: Artillery!
Ostheer doesn't have any offmap arty (except the Stukas, but they aren't a real arty), but they can call in/build a hell lot of different artillery-units.

My concept also shouldn't be realistic, but instead differs a bit from the other factions. Nonetheless, I'm going to improve it a bit now.

I'm still wondering, how similiar our concepts one the paper are, despite the fact, we have two different concepts in mind.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

My concept was inspire by the historical battles mixed with some new gameideas.
So my Ostheer is a very felxibal army because it can change its battlesituation. If you play more offensive you will need tanks and armored recon-vehicles. If you play more devensive you will need weapons for tankhunting oder airprotection and so i build up this concept too represent this concept.

This is like on the eastern front where offensive and defensive situations change very often. Offensive, massive tankattacks were displaced by defensive battles with entrenched anti tanks guns, mortars, anti-air and same way around.

Mhhh, I see the problem. Maybe change "Men against tanks!", so two Panzerfausts are fired when this upgrade was purchased and also having the ability for (some) infantry to throw "Geballte Ladungen".
Firing Panzerfausts for free has to go for that. So no excessive panzerfaust-spamming.

But this was the plan
- The ostheer used more then hundred thousands of
Panzerfäuste PER MONTH! Tousends too stop the red wave.
This was the main-anti-tank-weapon of the Landser.

Festungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )

    * Here i prefer my old version, because with this doctrin you should simulate the story and battles of the Festungen at the eastern front and especially the battles of the german fronttowns. The bunkers where the heavy defense against the enemy and battlegroups of kingtiger and Aufallstruppen should start heavy counterattacks.

Different opinions here. You're for heavy fortifications and even heavier tanks, while I think light/improvised defenses and anti-tank-tactics are enough.

-> I think you havent read my note about the anti-tankgun-bunker A small bunker ( earthbunker - perhaps out of wood and some plants and thnings like this ) with a 3,7cm Pak 36 'Heeresanlopfgerät'. This isnt a strong at-weapon but it will protect you against light armor raids ( T-60, Tetrach, Staghound? ).
So with this light fortifications you have to build up a defenseline and when enemy attack you here you can start counterattacks with infantry and with lowpriced tank-hunters like the Jagdpanzer 38 t OR with an heavy tank like the kingtiger.

[Aouch]

Mhhh, made some improvements to my concept:

• Added "Mobiler Gefechtsstand". Only unit which can heal, also can repair. Very weak (just a truck) and vulnerable, so it has to stay behind the lines. Just like a Gefechtstross of the artillery or infantry.
• Re-change Wespe<->Brummbär
• Added Marder III (it's easier to use a already existant unit than modelmix or make a new one from scratch) to T3 DEF
• Landser can use 2 panzerfausts after upgrade -> no OP in early-game.
• Deleted abilities for panzers (dug-in etc.) when upgrade T3 to DEF/OF (were a bit OP IMO)
• Replaced Hetzer in favour of StuG III
• Added Recon plane to Doctrin Army support troups
• Got rid of the 8.8cm PaK43

in favour of the Storch. (fits better into "air-mission-branch")

• Added "Panzergranate40-Ability" to Doctrin Tankbattlegroups.
• Added the Panzerfaust-cost to Doctrin tankbattlegroups.
• "Horrida Hurra!" is now part of the blitzkrieg-branch from Doctrin Tankbattlegroups.
• Removed Thomaschürzen from the blitzkrieg-branch.
• Removed Ausfallgruppen from Doctrin Festungsverbände. (Too similiar to "Heavy Panzergrenadiere", I think, thus no need for this unit.)
• Changed leFH18 into a leFH18 18/40. It's basicly the same unit, but as "light"-version, so it won't odd when soldiers carry around this heavy cannon.
• Removed some buildings from "Festungsbau". Reason: Some of the entrenchments (e.g. mortar- or AA-bunker) would encourage passiv playing to much. Maybe that was your intention (actually I know it was  ), however, a lot of CoH-players disrespect bunker-players and bunker-maps (Schelde etc.), so I think it would be a bad idea to make too strong defense-structures.
  (I have to say that I also like bunker-building and strong defense-lines, but you can still build them "manually" with sandbags, trenches and mortar-teams, 2cm FlaK and so on  ).

What do you think?

I'm very satisfied with my concept.
But still I see some problems, maybe someone can help me:

• The Doctrin "army support troups" seems to be a bit UP in comparision with the two other doctrins.
  For exemple, they somewhat lack good anti-tank capabilities?
• Tankbattlegroups looks a bit OP, or is it just me?
• There's still one slot missing in the Fortresstroups-doctrin...
  Some ideas here, Rommel? 

Finally I have to add, that the Ostheer isn't the only faction which will fight against the Red Army (which looks pretty strong right now), hence the DEVs will have to balance it, so also the Panzer Elite will stand a chance against the soviets.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

My idea is my concept 
I have my ideas and i made a concept out of it and would say that my concept is quiet good xD

[Xantor]

Most elaborated concept of Ostheer I've read there. Nice tier mechanics, securing resources, but I can' t find the technique to have veteran soldiers(or maybe I didn't read enough accurately ). But I think, that Ostheer should have Elefant than Ferdinand(to compare with KV- 2) and Jagdtiger than Kingtiger(to compare with ISU- 152)

5+/6

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

No JAGDTIGER for Ostheer, because there was just 5 or 6 Jagdtiger at the battle of Wien 1945.

And Vetsystem: Here i havent at the moment a clear idea

[UeArtemis]

I want to see Bergepanther in the game!!!

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Perhaps as reward unit for my Bergepioniere

[Aouch]

Hehe, again me. 

I know, you don't like my concept, however, a suggestion:
You should improve your concept on the first page a bit.
Nothing contentwise, but maybe add some wiki-links etc. to make some things clearer.
Also, please add some more explanations.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Kay. What do you think need more informations or wikilinks?

Edit: "I know, you don't like my concept, however, a suggestion:..."
Thats no right One or two ideas of your rework concept are now part of the concept at post number 1.. But i dont like some of your ideas xD Not all, but some of it  Like you. You dont like some of my ideas.

And so we discuss it 

[Aouch]

Kay. What do you think need more informations or wikilinks?

For example, you can link the SdKfz. 251/22 with a pic, like I did. So noone has to google it, to get a first impression how it looks like.
Just similiar like I did... (  )
Further, you could improve the structur of the whole concept a bit.

Also, I really don't like the "Volksgrenadiers" in the "Festungsbau-Doctrin" for various reason:

• According to your idea of entrenched defence-structures and heavy counter-attack possibilities, the "Ausfalltruppen" fit much better than weak VG.
• A doctrin ability should not replace other units.
• I think the "Landserzug" should be the standard inf of the Ostheer. Therefore no replace.
• I personnally don't like the idea of another cheap'n' weak inf for the Ostheer; "Luftwaffenfeldsoldaten" are enough, though they're in another doctrin. German soldiers have to be strong and kill russian inf units, especially "Conscripts" easily. Quality (Ostheer) vs. Quantity (Red Army), at least in the infantry-sector.
  German inf units shouldn't be too cheap, but offer a certain amount of firepower, so they can fight of the red masses.
  A "Landser" should have around 70 HP and a "heavy Panzergrenadier" around 80-90.

For the "PzKpfw. VI Tiger II": The DEVs won't even change skins on the vCoH units, so I actually doubt they are modify a whole doctrin and change the KöTi with the Jagdtiger.
Please think about that. You can still leave the KöTi in your concept but remove that lines stating "For that, the Jagdtiger will replace the Königstiger in the old Terror-Doctrin."


Oh, and last but not least: Take a quick look here!

I think now it's time to build a shrine for MrScruff and worship him as our new god.

Some more random screens: Partisans, Ju52 3/m (seems like a "glider" for Germany), PzKpfw. II (although still max-file), looks like the 251/22.

[Brewsky]

Well, I just got around to reading this, and I must say. You did a REALLY great job on this. I don't see anything that I don't like. Good choice of units. Doesn't look like to many units to create from scratch, so that gives the devs a break. Wespe is badass btw! Bravo Rommel!