Leutnant Gottlieb is Still Useless

[krupp steel]

It still seems that our reward unit promoting Leutnant Gottlieb to a Luftwaffe Leutnant, he still seems useless.  In my opinion reward units like the 105mm Howitzer Sherman Tank was a far better unit than the croc.  In this case, Leutnant Gottlieb still is useless, no matter which branch he chooses ( Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht).  I would atleast give Luftwaffe Leutnant Gottlieb a upgrade that changes his useless pistol into a STG44 that is 50% more accurate than a regular STG44, also 50% more damage to make up for just having one assault rifle.  I would make the cost 30 munitions.  To balance this, since the regular Wehrmacht Leutnant can't have this upgrade according to no change in vCoH policy, I would nerf some of the abilities the Luftwaffe Leutnant has, or even his health or whatever you think.  Any thoughts?  In games Leutnant Gottlieb has only appeared on the battlefield 3% of the time.  Making him better in combat and logistically will make him more popular to build.

[delmar77]

You've forgotten to add a cape and the capacity to fly...The name officer would be changed to Stormfront Officer...Just like the  of comic  The Boys  edition 34
 

[krupp steel]

I just can't find a use for him other than sucking damage when he's vet 3.  Vanilla officer is useless.  I use him as a cannon fodder.

[Dann88]

Your posts are not constructive, either you stop posting for awhile or think before post something.

[Blackbishop]

Well, it is not like we are going to change something from the wehr officer regardless how this poll ends. I mean, we don't modify vCoH stuff so I'm not sure if you are implying we should.

[Otto Halfhand]

I think the LW officer and the Soviet mechanics would be improved by a small amount of combat power. The mechanics production value is good. LWO somewhat less so. In either case these squads are usefull for production for a limited time each game. A secondary role with some meat on its bones would be good for both squads.

[Dann88]

Some units are should be keep out of heavy fire. That's easy to do right?

[Otto Halfhand]

Dann, how do you keep The good leutenant out of the way of 30-36 Katyusha rockets inbound?

[Pac-Fish]

Dann, how do you keep The good leutenant out of the way of 30-36 Katyusha rockets inbound?

I don t see how that point is in any way relevant. In that case Mechanic are also vulnerable to Nebels. And by heavy fire he means infantry and MGs, not artillery. Who waste 3 kats on a singe officer they may or may not hit? And at this point we are talking luck

[Otto Halfhand]

Pac Fish, go swing on a star. Any rocket attack that can target a base area is not wasted. You are targeting the base, not the production troops. Two or three rocket artillery attacks in closely timed sucession wreaks havoc.

[Pac-Fish]

Pac Fish, go swing on a star.

Sure, whatever that means

Any rocket attack that can target a base area is not wasted.

You are better off targeting actual clusters. Except for the fact you can target retreating units, but you didn't mention that and thats not part of the discussion. This is all luck.

Two or three rocket artillery attacks in closely timed sucession wreaks havoc.

Again, this is luck. And we are talking about the Officer. The officer would be in one of two places. In a base, or behind front lines where he can use his abilities effectively. If he is on the front lines and rockets flew by he could just retreat and he would survive. So him dying in that instance is marked off. And lets say he is in the base. The chances of him dying are iffy but this is obviously luck and he can just run into the HQ. If you are getting base raped by kats then obviously you are losing because a kat's range is only so good. SO this brings in a bunch of other things.

And 132's suggestion proposes increasing firepower for health and abilities. So now his health would be that of say, a brit lt, possibly even less (which dies fast in battle when focus fired) and would just have the firepower of a stormtrooper. You wont even need a kat barrage anymore cause he will die even faster now.

[Otto Halfhand]

The notion that one should target retreating or moving clusters with rocket artillery makes less sense then targeting an area with fixed emplacements that has retreating low health squads moving through it. Especially if the attacking unit has a persisting incendiary attack. I believe the scatter of the rocket attacks works in favor of maximum destruction and mayhem when employed in this fashion.

The limited range of Katyusha's is not an issue here if you target with an attack move followed by a retreat to safe position. The truck mounting makes this particularly effective.

If you shouldn't employ "weak production squads" in the front lines then the logical place for them to be is at base.

[Pac-Fish]

At this point m going to let other people argue this because it is clear u and me arent going to see eye to eye about this for a variety of reason.

[krupp steel]

Note I said changing the REWARD unit, the Luftwaffe Officer, not the regular vCoH officer.  Combat can make the unit more popular, since at vet 3 he has elite armor and an extra 20% health to stack onto the >165 he already has, which is probably more survivability than a conscript squad.  The point is, the Luftwaffe officer is a reward unit that is trying to make the officer more popular, though it still fails to do so and even with its abilities it's not worth 260 manpower.  Mechanics can repair very well, and have the supervise ability.  You would get them for both of these roles.  But getting a sturm armoury, plus the 260 manpower, do you think it's really worth getting an officer just for the supervise?  I mean he can use his abilities on the front line but it is extremely expensive and relies on your munitions income to be useful, and I almost never see people use them at all in games.  Does he seem that useful then?  Two units that cost the same (though tech costs to sturm armoury which probably makes the officer a lategame unit and more expensive), made for sitting in base, mechanics seem a lot better than an Luftwaffe officer even.

Again, our goal is to make the LUFTWAFFE officer more popular and used than its current state.  The closest companion to the officer is the soviet observers.  They have a similar unit that requires to use munitions to be useful, though I'm not complaining since they cost 40 manpower less and they have decent weapons and good survivability (heroic armor) on top of the fact it comes out much earlier.

[Otto Halfhand]

I agree with most of your argument. Certainly the cost of Mechanics is acceptable given their production bonuses. The LWO I'm not so sure about the cost. Building faster doesn't help much if you don't have the correct resource mix. Perhaps using an HT for LWO transport would be worth the effort. two MGs until you are in the right place at the right time to use your Munis , that might work.