Conscript idea upgrade

[krupp steel]

It's been a while since there was an idea for the soviets.  So onto the idea:
At vet 3 conscripts receive an upgrade/option to become a new squad of Strelky and basically transforms into it.  That's all.  But before they change one person dies like the the NKVD cons ability so that it is 6-6.  What do you think?  IMHO damn cons don't do crap when vetted even vet 3.

[Otto Halfhand]

Not a bad idea. The only downside I see upfront is that Conscripts essentially have 0 Pop. The mechanics used for this is a little odd, but when you change from 1conscript to a strelky if your Pop started at 40 of 50 after the upgrade the Pop would be 39 of 43. If another Conscript is promoted the pop would be 38 of 36. Your expansion is halted until your cap limit goes above 38. an additional SP at this point would give you a Pop of 38 of 39, so basically your expansion would be halted until you have captured 2 SPs.

Other weird aspects of Conscripts having zero effective Pop include:

• There is a hard cap of 5 Conscript squads. but you cant recruit a squad unless 7 Pop is available. In the above example we have promoted 2 conscripts, so we have at least two squads available for recruitment. We need to capture a 3rd SP in order to recruit a conscript. Pop: 38/45.  We recruit the squad and our pop goes to 45/52! So we can then recruit an additional Conscript at which time the Pop: 52/59. Capishe?
• Conscripts have no MP upkeep. If you have an MP gain rate of 280 and recruit 5 Conscript squads your MP gain rate will settle down at 280. If you recruit 3 Strelky the upkeep cost is about 8.6 mp/squad. (I am going to simplify here because other rules come into play;which I am ignoring right now). After 3 Strelky are recruited your MP gain rate will be 280 -25.8 = ~255 MP/min. (IIRC it will actually be ~ 269 MP/min. but there are a bunch of rules). 

[Pac-Fish]

IIRC this idea was already proposed but it was shot down.

[krupp steel]

Really?  Can u direct me the link? I didn't know sorry.

[Pac-Fish]

Really?  Can u direct me the link? I didn't know sorry.

No need to apologize. Its not that bad of an idea. I would argue the point but here:

http://www.easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=6428.0

[Blackbishop]

The max size of any given squad cannot be reduced, only increased. So this ain't gonna work, you may say RMC does a different thing, but it only works because it is applied for the starting unit, so you don't see any secondary issue besides the guy being killed himself.

So, Conscripts must have a squad size of six if this is going to be implemented.

[Pac-Fish]

Then how about they can get an upgrade to get strelky stats (or adjusted stats so 7 strelky conscripts = 6 strelky)

[Dreamerbg]

Vet 3 conscripts ... Who can make this achievement in every battle to really get some advantage of them.
And why you want conscripts to become strelky ?
Is it only for the ability to capture abandoned weapons ?

IMO conscripts are cannon fodders and they are early infantry , not main. So if you use them soo much to get them to vet3 you are super pro player or your opponent is the crappiest player ever

Sorry if I sound somehow offensive but this is only my opinion and it doesnt matter at all 

[Otto Halfhand]

Pac-Fish is on the right track here. I don't think Conscripts should upgrade to pure Strelky Stats though. Added resistance to incendiary attacks would be a good benefit of vet. Buffing their capping rate with vet would be nice too. Once upon a time they had a capping rate of 1.25 or so. Perhaps a 1.1 buff would be in order. Picking up dropped weapons is too much though. PTRDs drop too easily and are replaced when the AT infantry reinforces. This leads to too many PTRDs on field IMO. IIRC at vet2 or vet 3 Conscripts could crew weapons. I don't know if this is still the case. I don't have a problem with it though.

Does it matter if you achieve vet3 in every game? I think not. Tis fun, I will grant you but hardly necessary. The notion that there is no role for Conscripts beyond early game baffles me. The molotovs are very useful throughout the game to force the enemy to break cover. When they get into close range to do so their full rifles upgrade is doing significant DPS as well. I think the Conscript Design is pretty well thought out.

BTW AI Conscripts are still picking up weapons. It is seen most readily when you succeed in breaking into the Soviet Base. It takes a lot of PTRD shots to do in a Jagdpanther but conscripts manage it on occasion. 

[Dreamerbg]

Conscripts have their role also after the early game of course, but they are not designed (as far as i know) to be a strong enought and to be used as a main infantry even at vet 3. Thats why they have this cost and this popcap.

The idea of getting some aditional upgrades is not that bad.

[Dann88]

Conscript already has 2 upgrades. Full rifle upgrade is a pretty powerful upgrade with a huge accuracy boost. I think there is no need for more upgrades.

[Tankbuster]

I would like if conscripts got a PPsH for every level of vet they have provided they have the full rifles upgrade.

[Otto Halfhand]

Giving every Sov infantry and Ingeneri Squad SMG capabilities sounds a bit over the top to me.

Full rifles is definitely powerful, as are Molotovs. I still hold out for some vetted defensive nerfs. I really think better resistance against fire attacks is in order.

Regardless of Vet levels if you have Conscripts in your OB late game they are there to be used; regardless of what you think of them or want to call them.

[Tankbuster]

I suggested this so that they become a bit like partisans, good for holding off the germans long for the CS and the guards squads to retreat.

[Otto Halfhand]

IDK. I think Conscripts would serve as a Forelorn Hope better with more defensive buffs. Maybe less received damage or more Health. A combination of both awarded at different vet levels might do it.  We don't want Conscripts to get too powerful and end up like Stormovie or Volks - too many balancing problems.