1.7xx Breakthrough Discussion

[Pac-Fish]

Its obviously a bug

[krupp steel]

KV1 is a heavy tank now.  Basically in this patch it is just like a British Churchill Tank, but without the tank shock ability but better AT abilities.  The voice of the KV1 is even the same as the Churchill, but in Russian.

[Otto Halfhand]

The KV1 has always been a heavy tank, with the incidental benefits, (like heavy crush), all heavy tanks have. The interesting thing here is the early availability (after 4 CP), and no fuel requirements to produce. If you have a use for the abilities of any heavy tank this is an attractive proposition.

[Wekwekboris]

 Question: Doesn't penetration effect the amount of received damage?

It doesn't add any damage. Penetration is the chance to hit the enemy vehicle/tank for that matter. Damage is what happens when it penetrates or is refelected. The IS-2 I think has less Pen than a Firefly but has tons more damage. 

[Otto Halfhand]

Question: Doesn't penetration effect the amount of received damage?

It doesn't add any damage. Penetration is the chance to hit the enemy vehicle/tank for that matter. Damage is what happens when it penetrates or is refelected. The IS-2 I think has less Pen than a Firefly but has tons more damage. 

I am under the impression that if you achieve penetration you obtain full damage when you get a hit. If you get a hit but no penetration you obtain less than full damage. Is this correct?

[Wekwekboris]

Question: Doesn't penetration effect the amount of received damage?

It doesn't add any damage. Penetration is the chance to hit the enemy vehicle/tank for that matter. Damage is what happens when it penetrates or is refelected. The IS-2 I think has less Pen than a Firefly but has tons more damage. 

I am under the impression that if you achieve penetration you obtain full damage when you get a hit. If you get a hit but no penetration you obtain less than full damage. Is this correct?

Yeah, you obtain full damage when it penetrates. You get a bonus on rear armor and when it doesnt penetrate you will deal less damage. Fireflies have great pen and range but has mediocre damage. I think the T-34/85 has a bit more damage than a Firefly. Panther has less range/less pen but much greater damage than the Firefly.

[Dot.Shadow]

I'm finding the right side of the tree to be absolutely horrid now. The Mechanics are good, yes, but they're not particularly useful if you go right side first. Tank riding adds something, which is, in my opinion, completely useless.

Whoop de fucking do, I can cap a point with infantry garrisoned in my T34 -.-

[Otto Halfhand]

Amen, brother! Tank Riders certainly was gutted. They even took away my non-BT SMGs.  I know the old design team wanted to give all Soviet Tanks this ability but I have no idea why. Tank Riders seem to die like flies. The Bren-Carrier makes a far superior capping unit. Unless the Devs can see clear to some APC its the only mechanized transport the Soviets will likely get. And only doctrinally at that. The only improvement I can think of would be if Ingeneri/Stormovie/Mechanics could repair while riding; but even there only Mechanics can ride.

If Tank Riders were done away with entirely what ability or call-n would you replace it with?

[MonolithicBacon]

If Tank Riders were done away with entirely what ability or call-n would you replace it with?

Not that I'm looking to do away with the tank riders, I've always imagined that units gaining suppression reductions (from hiding behind vehicles) or having buffs from being around vehicles, such as increased movement speed whenever they're in the vicinity, as they're sprinting to keep up with the only cover they have.

[Otto Halfhand]

I don't think it works that way Bacon. AFAIK Tank Riders are in worse cover, Negative_Roadway_cover I believe,. They should receive increased accuracy from firing from a stationary position even if the tank is moving as well. There may be other plusses and minuses, IDK.

I believe the idea was to ride beyond the enemy line and disembark. That is why Engeneri and Stormovie were excluded, so they couldn't roll over bunkers. When I have tried this type of tactic the tank riders usually get killed on vehicles first.

Nice work on the different maps.

[MonolithicBacon]

I don't think it works that way Bacon. AFAIK Tank Riders are in worse cover, Negative_Roadway_cover I believe,. They should receive increased accuracy from firing from a stationary position even if the tank is moving as well. There may be other plusses and minuses, IDK.

I believe the idea was to ride beyond the enemy line and disembark. That is why Engeneri and Stormovie were excluded, so they couldn't roll over bunkers. When I have tried this type of tactic the tank riders usually get killed on vehicles first.

Nice work on the different maps.

Cheers, but I was only stating it as an alternative. Honestly, using tanks as cover is something I expected the game to have when I started playing just after the vanilla release date, but even an engine as advanced as this never seemed to pull it off. Granted, shots aimed at infantry hiding behind tanks usually won't reach them, but the suppression does.

So instead of having infantry riding on tanks, coverless and exposed, why not have them on the ground, just as exposed, but at the very least inspired to rush on ahead? Mortar and rifle fire would still rip them to pieces, but with a little micro, you could easily rush tanks and infantry past enemy lines, just as you would with riders, if the infantry were a little faster.

[Otto Halfhand]

It sounds like you want to grant FTML suppression reduction to infantry advancing behind tanks. You can do this with the Urban CT_doctrine. If I understand correctly a BT ability would energize an aura around tanks that reduces the suppression rate, (or more probably increases the suppression recovery rate to infantry within the radius of effect). This would work better with slower tanks since the infantry still needs to keep up. A fire-up/sprint might work in this regard. Sounds a little OP but I like the idea.

[MonolithicBacon]

Hey, I'm no balancer!

Still, it's only an idea! Frankly though, I love the idea of infantry sprinting behind their tanks, just as much as riding on them!

[Otto Halfhand]

Well, Inspired speech will give you a 5 second sprint with your tank riders.

[MonolithicBacon]

Don't get me wrong, you're absolutely right!