Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: [1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?  (Read 15771 times)

Offline Yhcrana

  • Ingenery
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 03:15:13 PM »
I played a game a couple of months ago Stalingrad Railroad Station as Soviets vs a PE and Wehrmacht player, I attacked with eight full squads of Tank Hunters supported with two strelky and a command squad... I had placed them in heavy cover, they had men vs tanks upgrade and they were attacked by 2 PE light armoured cars with no supporting infantry or artillery.

Neither PE armoured car was destroyed and all that remained of my infantry was four badly wounded tank hunter squads, one squad of strelky and 2 guards from the command squad.
Now if I had known Tank Hunters had been made so absolutely useless I could have just built eight squads of strelky and wiped the floor with those light armoured cars instead of wasting all my manpower on infantry that are supposed to be dedicated anti-vehicle/anti-tank... on that note I could have also built eight ZiS AT guns... or called in three tank riders etc etc etc.

Seriously when eight squads of tank hunters can't kill a single light armoured car as it drives by there has to be something wrong...

As for tank hunters being too strong vs infantry... that made me laugh hard. They used to be decent vs infantry just like any other small squad with bolt action rifles... now they are just as pathetic against infantry as they are against tanks.
Unless you're sending non-upgraded pioneers against them tank hunters will get raped by any infantry... although that's not saying much since pretty much everything rapes them nowadays.


Personally I'd say forget the tread breaking, screw anti-tank mines and give Tank Hunters back their old AT rifles and enough accuracy that they can at least shoot in the same general direction as their target.
I can imagine the 37mm cannon of a PE light halftrack breaking a tread cog but a 14mm ptrd? What's wrong with regular mines deployed by ingineery?
AT grenades are only useful if the target doesn't move, just like with PE AT grenades you'd have to be damn lucky to hit anything with them and not just be wasting munitions.

So remember kids, when you're thinking about taking tank hunters... just say 'no'.

Offline My Name Is Ante

  • Guard
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Please, my name is Ante not Dante
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 04:11:04 PM »
Really?
Last time I check Sublime replay 2 days ago I found them wasted Panther...
I am sorry for my bad

Offline Otto Halfhand

  • Donor
  • Mr. Spam
  • *
  • Posts: 1166
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 04:42:40 PM »
I played a game a couple of months ago Stalingrad Railroad Station as Soviets vs a PE and Wehrmacht player, I attacked with eight full squads of Tank Hunters ....Seriously when eight squads of tank hunters can't kill a single light armoured car as it drives by there has to be something wrong...

As for tank hunters being too strong vs infantry... that made me laugh hard. They used to be decent vs infantry just like any other small squad with bolt action rifles... now they are just as pathetic against infantry ...
Unless you're sending non-upgraded pioneers against them tank hunters will get raped by any infantry...

Personally I'd say forget the tread breaking, screw anti-tank mines and give Tank Hunters back their old AT rifles and enough accuracy that they can at least shoot in the same general direction as their target.
I can imagine the 37mm cannon of a PE light halftrack breaking a tread cog but a 14mm ptrd? What's wrong with regular mines deployed by ingineery?
AT grenades are only useful if the target doesn't move, just like with PE AT grenades you'd have to be damn lucky to hit anything with them and not just be wasting munitions.
You are right when 8 to 16 PTRDs can't KIA a single AC something is not right. In SP the AI has certain advantages over player but TH squads are less effective than I like to see. Shreks are the same, but for different reasons.

If you employ THs with at least two Squads, (second does'nt need to be TH though); at medium to long range and in cover they will chew up upgraded pios and VG with SR MP44s/Flamers.

THs are a soft counter. to MVeh, HVeh. If they can slow down or immobilize enemy AFVs you should have other Squads that can take them down. Historically AT rifles, including the PTRD could break Treads, smash vision blocks and perforate cannon barrels at ranges of 1400 yards. most of the damage is critical hits though. The 37mm ATHT supposedly could fire 1700 yds plus and achieve penetration. IDK Seems to me at long range criticals would be more important. AT mines should disable AAFVs. regular mines don't .

You are absolutely right about the Accuracy of AT grenades, (although guard nades seem to be pretty accurate). PG and TH AT nades accuracy is very bad.
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War

Offline Cranialwizard

  • Donor
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 3270
  • Unknown Soldier
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 10:05:16 PM »
I played a game a couple of months ago Stalingrad Railroad Station as Soviets vs a PE and Wehrmacht player, I attacked with eight full squads of Tank Hunters supported with two strelky and a command squad... I had placed them in heavy cover, they had men vs tanks upgrade and they were attacked by 2 PE light armoured cars with no supporting infantry or artillery.

Neither PE armoured car was destroyed and all that remained of my infantry was four badly wounded tank hunter squads, one squad of strelky and 2 guards from the command squad.
Now if I had known Tank Hunters had been made so absolutely useless I could have just built eight squads of strelky and wiped the floor with those light armoured cars instead of wasting all my manpower on infantry that are supposed to be dedicated anti-vehicle/anti-tank... on that note I could have also built eight ZiS AT guns... or called in three tank riders etc etc etc.

Seriously when eight squads of tank hunters can't kill a single light armoured car as it drives by there has to be something wrong...

As for tank hunters being too strong vs infantry... that made me laugh hard. They used to be decent vs infantry just like any other small squad with bolt action rifles... now they are just as pathetic against infantry as they are against tanks.
Unless you're sending non-upgraded pioneers against them tank hunters will get raped by any infantry... although that's not saying much since pretty much everything rapes them nowadays.


Personally I'd say forget the tread breaking, screw anti-tank mines and give Tank Hunters back their old AT rifles and enough accuracy that they can at least shoot in the same general direction as their target.
I can imagine the 37mm cannon of a PE light halftrack breaking a tread cog but a 14mm ptrd? What's wrong with regular mines deployed by ingineery?
AT grenades are only useful if the target doesn't move, just like with PE AT grenades you'd have to be damn lucky to hit anything with them and not just be wasting munitions.

So remember kids, when you're thinking about taking tank hunters... just say 'no'.

I can't tell if you're a troll because when you say "8 Tank Hunters" I take it that you're not playing conventional play style.

Pretty sure this is L2P issue. Tank Hunters are fine for this patch.
"Balancers are 10 a penny"

Offline Pac-Fish

  • Axis Commander
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Waka Waka Gluba Gulba
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2012, 01:58:15 AM »
Do you at least have a replay ???? Usually better to back your story with visual evidence  :P

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline Cranialwizard

  • Donor
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 3270
  • Unknown Soldier
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2012, 02:49:53 AM »
He's trolling for sure. He's never provided evidence to his claims on Tank Hunters yet does it constantly. Remember his "Guide?"
"Balancers are 10 a penny"

Offline Pac-Fish

  • Axis Commander
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Waka Waka Gluba Gulba
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2012, 03:15:33 AM »
I didn't realize this was the same person :P. But we should try to judge on what we see, not what we have seen
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 03:24:58 AM by Cat Fishy »

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline Yhcrana

  • Ingenery
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2012, 09:08:09 AM »
Dude I'm not saying the guy I was playing against was retarded and just sat the cars in front of my guys for them to shoot, but I am serious about eight squads failing to kill either car.

Believe it or not I don't save replays of every single game I've ever played, if you really want to see how bad tank hunters are why don't you have a play match some time and test them out?

Offline Walentin 'Walki' L.

  • Developer
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 3262
  • Creator of Things
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2012, 10:35:42 AM »
If you micro your cars probably they'll shredder infantry. Tank Hunters were never supposed to be a hard counter against armoured cars, they are a cheap support unit. I guess this was already mentioned by somebody in this thread. A good counter would be a T70 or an AT-Gun. At them moment we have a quiet good balance so they are not overpowered and not useless.

#Added missing version tags.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 10:38:12 AM by Walki »
I identify as a four-eyed bird man. /s

Offline Cranialwizard

  • Donor
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 3270
  • Unknown Soldier
    • View Profile
Re: What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2012, 12:13:33 PM »
Believe it or not I don't save replays of every single game I've ever played, if you really want to see how bad tank hunters are why don't you have a play match some time and test them out?

Just like in a court case, you can not prove your evidence based on simply hear-say or you could easily be lying.

I could say I had 16 Heavy Mortars against a bunker that didn't die all day long. And no one would believe me because there is no replay evidence, there is no plausibility either because the general opinion is that Tank hunters are fine.

On that record, I play games everyday testing different units and strategies.
"Balancers are 10 a penny"

Offline Pac-Fish

  • Axis Commander
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Waka Waka Gluba Gulba
    • View Profile
Re: [1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2012, 12:36:06 AM »
Well you didn't know about saving a THs replay b4. Maybe you could get one now (since you have been asked for one) to prove this point? :P. Show us the conditions in which you feel were unfair that u fought in. No offense is meant.

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline jojorabbit

  • Developer
  • Commissar
  • *
  • Posts: 481
    • View Profile
Re: [1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2012, 01:45:51 AM »
Sorry but am not sure that it happened (No offence), i don't say that it is not possible it depends on lot of factors like AC veterancy, inf cover etc.

Could you be a little more specific, how many cars were there? How many TH you had? In what cover were THs, etc.
Maybe even to tell me the map and spots where that battle happened so i can test that scenario :).
Thanks.

Here is reason why am not sure that it is possible:
I had some extra free time this weekend and to make my life easier i made a little tool, won't tell you much cuz it is WIP :P.

I tested Tank Hunters vs Axis Puma and vs PE Armored Car.
And here are results:



NOTES:
unit1/unit2 = first/second unit in battle
upg1/upg2 = upgrade that unit has
start1/start2 = how many man are in squad -> 8 in case of TH means 2xTH
end1/end2 = how many man left in squad after battle
eff1/eff2 = the effectiveness of unit -> formula = left/start
health1/health2 = health left after battle
time = how long was battle in seconds

SDKFZ_234 = PUMA
PTRD_TEAM = Tank Hunters
222_ARMORED_CAR = PE Armored Car

Each battle was fought 3 times, as you can see in table PE AC only won in 1 battle vs 1xTH and one vs 2x TH.
Puma won all vs 1xTH but also lost all vs 2xTH. Puma is a little stronger then PE AC but it loses to 2 x TH in all 3 battles so idk what happened in your case.

That seems ok to me idk what opinions others have.
Also i can post replay with these battles if you need it.

As Walki said:
Quote
Tank Hunters were never supposed to be a hard counter against armoured cars, they are a cheap support unit.

So IMO if they are soft counter they seem pretty ok to me sometimes even pretty strong, puma and PE AC are both medium vehicles and TH did pretty good vs them so i don't see any problems with them.

No offense to anyone  :).

Offline Pac-Fish

  • Axis Commander
  • Poster of the Soviet Union
  • *
  • Posts: 2494
  • Waka Waka Gluba Gulba
    • View Profile
Re: [1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2012, 02:12:38 AM »
This reminds me of Spike TV when they show the "Deadliest Warrior' and a comp generates several battles to see whats the outcome :P

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline stealthattack1

  • Axis Commander
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 713
  • there is no losing, only delayed winning.
    • View Profile
Re: [1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2012, 02:42:08 AM »
holy crap, you cant argue with jojo!


OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD AND RAPE CEASERS GHOST IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN!?

Offline Otto Halfhand

  • Donor
  • Mr. Spam
  • *
  • Posts: 1166
    • View Profile
Re: [1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2012, 04:30:29 AM »
Hey jojo your battle simulator is looking pretty good.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 06:49:47 AM by Otto Halfhand »
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War