[1.60] What do you think of Soviet Tank Hunters?

[BreadBox]

  This is my first post in the Eastern front mod forum and I have a balance concern.

My concern lies with the Soviet Tank Hunter,they have been Nerfed HUGELY(every aspect was nerfed) after patch 1.6 and I am starting to wonder if they have much use at all .

Before I got man v tank,they have only 1 anti tank rifle,I mean seriously???1 anti tank rifle(worst than even bazooka) for a dedicated AT infantry?It may have been fine before the patch,now its dam and pen have been reduced I seriously doubt its usefulness.

My experience with them ,re just terrible they could hardly stop a puma while in green cover with man v tank upgrade.
You may argue that the first strike bonus added is a buff,nooo way,how would a weapon which rely on speed of fire ever benefit from a first strike bonus?I really don,t see why you increase the cloak time as well.

Now they seem to die incredibly FAST to anything,I could rarely get them in the range of the German vehicle just to scratch their paint job .
The cost effectiveness sucks as well,you spend the almost same amount of mp as the at gun to get something with only 1/8 of its fire-power.

I really do not understand what tick off the devs soo much that they nerf the tank hunters to this state of oblivion and I don,t think doing its job well is a very good reason.

I really think tank hunters needs to be restored to a more useful state,they are a waste of manpower and there is hardly reason to get close range support.

Opinion?

[Desert_Fox]

Try Giga-blob TH+Rifleman+CS and you will change your opinion.

[BreadBox]

Try Giga-blob TH+Rifleman+CS and you will change your opinion.

You make it sound like amassing infantry is very easy and if you allow blobs to build up with have no proper counter then it,s not the unit,s fault.

pretty much ALL the factions could blob infantry(of course it,s going to be effective to have 5 TH grouped together against a few puma which are arriving one by one) and how was blobbing related to the cost effectiveness of the tank hunters anyway?They are hardly a deterrence to even armoured car unless in numbers and with man v tank.One of the problem is that there,s completely no reason to use Th to at gun.

Maybe a replay may prove it is effective.Plus the Mg42 and mortar with take down blobs effectively.

[Pac-Fish]

While I personally don't like THs I don't think they are that UP that they should be given a new buff. Before they were sorta just blobbed to no end. They could take out a Panther for crying out loud even though they were front armor shots (it was my panther too  )!

[GodlikeDennis]

Tank Hunters were actually substantially buffed at close range but heavily nerfed at long range. They are better for supporting your AT guns now. However, the AT nade is quite crap and doesn't do the job it's supposed to - stopping circle-strafing units. THs are still useful against light vehicles or when hitting the rear of an enemy vehicle and are especially deadly up close. They can even wear down tanks at long range from the front, it just takes a lot more time.

THs aren't a shock AT unit like say, shreks. They wear enemy vehicles down through attrition, ambush and immobilisation.

The team is very happy with the PTRD stats AFAIK but the unit itself is still being discussed.

[Desert_Fox]

Tank Hunters were actually substantially buffed at close range but heavily nerfed at long range. They are better for supporting your AT guns now. However, the AT nade is quite crap and doesn't do the job it's supposed to - stopping circle-strafing units. THs are still useful against light vehicles or when hitting the rear of an enemy vehicle and are especially deadly up close. They can even wear down tanks at long range from the front, it just takes a lot more time.

THs aren't a shock AT unit like say, shreks. They wear enemy vehicles down through attrition, ambush and immobilisation.

The team is very happy with the PTRD stats AFAIK but the unit itself is still being discussed.

Agree

[Cranialwizard]

Soviet Tank Hunters were formerly OP in the sense that you were able to blob them as an efficient tactic against enemy tanks and you could successfully come out on top, and that's not their role. Their role is exactly how Dennis states:

THs aren't a shock AT unit like say, shreks. They wear enemy vehicles down through attrition, ambush and immobilisation.

Don't forget about their AT mines which if placed correctly can devastate tanks and vehicles. Then you can use the Tank Hunter to get in close for the kill if it's immobilized or it has a huge chunk of health missing.

If you want an infantry shock unit  with AT capabilities, you'll have to look into Navals with their PTRD. They're a bit more resilient to enemy fire. Or go for the SU-85/T34 Riders for a quick tank that has excellent/decent AT capabilities. Spamming tank hunters at long range will achieve you nothing.

Replays are always good evidence for everything.

[Sommarkatze]

Like they say. Have them in giant infantry blobs and they are devastating against everything with armour! XD One singel tank hunter aint that good. Its like putting one singel PE tank buster against a sherman.
They need support! :>

[BreadBox]

Maybe it,s just my luck,but the shots from the at rifles either bounce off the armour of armoured car or warp through the car entirely 70 per cent of the time. now they,re pretty much obsolete against late game armour.

[Otto Halfhand]

The TH's are a good soft counter to vehicles and tanks. Early game their 3 rifles provide much needed support to the 4 rifle conscript squads and and in obtaining map control as well. I consider the vanilla THs as AI with ATability. When MAT comes on board the THs become ATinfantry with reduced AI effectiveness. Not really a problem since normally Strelky and TH become available at the same time and given the resources can be produced in tandem. Early game TH+Strelky >9 rifles + 1ATrifle  or (8 rifles + 2PTRD) a potent combination when the additional Fire and Maneuver tactics are added into the equation. At vet2? THs again regain stature as an AI AND AT infantry, (3 rifles +2 PTRDs). Herein is my only bitch. My OB will normally consist of 3-4 TH squads. when vet2 arrives the TH in question frequently has to retreat anyway. I end up with 3-4 depleted THs at HQ with extra squad member(s) available but insufficient Pop to get my TH company up to full strength. grrrh!

Balance concerns end here'

THs aren't a shock AT unit like say, shreks. They wear enemy vehicles down through attrition, ambush and immobilisation.

The team is very happy with the PTRD stats AFAIK but the unit itself is still being discussed.

Discussion concerns start here:

I became involved with EF too late to influence THs design and development. If I were to start from scratch with THs I would have given them a Tread Breaker Ability w/muni cost and an old Style Molotov global ability (before vehicle crits were nerfed). I understand Tread Breaker was OP as a global ability - maybe not so much so as a pay per use? In this version the long range penetration values of PTRD would be severely nerfed ie low damage. M vs Ts would 2nd PTRD add camo, AT nades and AT mines (and perhaps remove molotov ability). Veterancy would be set up like Falls def=off-off >> allowing camo to quickly cycle on and increased damage (like PE Shreks).

Perhaps this can experimented with when panzerbusch comes on line.

End Discussion points. Return to balance arguments.

[GodlikeDennis]

Treadbreak is OP, even when you pay for it. Better to give THs button which relies heavily on units supporting.

[BreadBox]

Oh well given the poll result i guess the th are fine as they are.though i still hope they will a few useful ability or slightly more pen so  :-\shot would at least pen amoured car when their shots did not phase through

[Otto Halfhand]

Treadbreak is OP, even when you pay for it. Better to give THs button which relies heavily on units supporting.

Yes Tread break is very powerful. Button is good. I think minor engine damage crits would be worth considering as well.

[Trooper425]

I think the really essential point with THs is the design of their AT rifles. They should have better range and acc than 'schrecks, but only have superior penetration at close range. Maybe not have a tread-breaker ability, but make wheel/track hits more likely?

[Pac-Fish]

IMO THs are too strong atm against infantry close range. They make alot of their PTRD shots and they cause lots of damage to infantry. IDK if its because THs were heavily buffed close range but I think this should be looked into.