AI Bugs Discussion

[Pac-Fish]

Don't worry Fish, it's maybe predictable but If you really play that kind of AI, predictable mines actually become a "annoying factor" slow you down with wait for minesweeper or inflict unexpected damages. Human players sometimes place mines in predictable places too btw ;P

Yeah I might be worrying too much . And you are right, there are always "hot spots" in a game where you know there will be mines.

[jojorabbit]

Ok, can anyone draw me a good vectors/spots on angoville farms so i can test it. Focus on mines for now leave other defences for later.

[Pac-Fish]

Ok, can anyone draw me a good vectors/spots on angoville farms so i can test it. Focus on mines for now leave other defences for later.

What do you mean? Like take a picture of a Angoville and draw where mines should be .? If so can you upload a Angoville map? I have none

[jojorabbit]

Just show me some screenshots i will upload overhead map soon.

[Pac-Fish]

I took a picture of Angoville (ty Google ) and added little circles. IMO these are okay spots (although I wasn't 100% sure what was there so you might have to look for the heavy cover or the choke point my circle refers to ). The circles are color coded. The circles can work both ways (ether starting pint) but is slightly more oriented towards the south.

Red: Priority
Blue: Later on
Yellow: Low Priority

[jojorabbit]

Thanks for start i will try a red ones later will see.

[Chumley]

Greetings All,

Jojorabbit: Here is the requested section from my general 'bug' thread posting:


A. Since I play mostly against expert level in annihilation mode (often w no pop-cap) the games can go a bit long...hey there's lots to kill!....and the AI just 'runs out of steam'. It stops producing almost anything but the 'latest greatest' for the Command Tree it has chosen, and so becomes one-dimensional. So for example, the Sovs stop producing Strelky and other infantry and just make SU-152s...which are meat because they are unsupported etc. Also, when the game is reloaded and watched I see the AI having TONS of MP to make inf etc but it doesn't use it because it is waiting for the SU-152 (for example) timer to reset so it can make another one. It needs to keep some balance so it can be more effective nearing the end game. The effect is that the game is a good hard game up until the AI collapses into this silly 'make one thing only' mode.

I would add that when the above occurs, the comp doesn't have the units to cap areas and ends up (if pop-cap is in play) way heavy in pop with units it cant support and that can't cap areas so they can get more pop to use....the AI literally enters a 'catch22' it cannot survive. I have had games where I am hard pressed but if I can just last long enough......I win! Woot

You asked if this happens in other modes besides expert and all can say is that it def does in Hard also. I haven't played against a Normal or lower AI setting in years so I don't know but I suspect it would occur at any level should the game go long enough. It does happen for all factions...US will produce only the Calliope Sherman when using Armor Tree...Brits only Crocs.....whatever is the Big Daddy of the Command Tree it has chosen.

One more item: The Sovs always seem to produce a TON of Inf at the expense of armor. I can almost always just ignore AT until later than I would against any other faction due to this. When I play PE vs Sov AI, I can often go...forward re-enforcement point....STG44....squad size increase...healing....and then get a Marder. This is because the Sovs always go with an Inf strong early game....way after they have built the Tank Hall comes the first actual armor....sure they needs tons of fuel to get armor but I dunno...seems the same pattern no matter what Tree they choose. This makes the PE very (silly?) strong against the Sovs when comp stomping.

Thanks again for this GREAT mod. Your teams have done AWESOME work on this and I cannot thank you enough!!

Regards,

Chumley

[jojorabbit]

A. Since I play mostly against expert level in annihilation mode (often w no pop-cap) the games can go a bit long...hey there's lots to kill!....and the AI just 'runs out of steam'. It stops producing almost anything but the 'latest greatest' for the Command Tree it has chosen, and so becomes one-dimensional. So for example, the Sovs stop producing Strelky and other infantry and just make SU-152s...which are meat because they are unsupported etc. Also, when the game is reloaded and watched I see the AI having TONS of MP to make inf etc but it doesn't use it because it is waiting for the SU-152 (for example) timer to reset so it can make another one. It needs to keep some balance so it can be more effective nearing the end game. The effect is that the game is a good hard game up until the AI collapses into this silly 'make one thing only' mode.

Added to the list. Linked with your great description of bug.

One more item: The Sovs always seem to produce a TON of Inf at the expense of armor. I can almost always just ignore AT until later than I would against any other faction due to this. When I play PE vs Sov AI, I can often go...forward re-enforcement point....STG44....squad size increase...healing....and then get a Marder. This is because the Sovs always go with an Inf strong early game....way after they have built the Tank Hall comes the first actual armor....sure they needs tons of fuel to get armor but I dunno...seems the same pattern no matter what Tree they choose. This makes the PE very (silly?) strong against the Sovs when comp stomping.

This is imo half fixed sov AI will make vehicles and tanks more often, sov AI had only one BO conscript start now it has 2, i will add more when i get some suggestions and when sov persona will be defined.
On the first post you can look all the changes and todo changes.

[Otto Halfhand]

....and the AI just 'runs out of steam'. It stops producing almost anything but the 'latest greatest' for the Command Tree... the Sovs stop producing Strelky and other infantry ...when the above occurs, the comp doesn't have the units to cap areas

The Sovs have an interesting Strategic Advantage that can be used to easily correct this. 5 conscript squads are available at no burden to the pop cap. The hitch is you must have 7pop available to build a conscript squad. As far as the AI  is concerned there is a five unit roster of units the AI will choose from during its production cycle. My syntax is doubtless wrong but here goes:

• ConscriptsBP (5=maximum).
• If fcn(qty of conscript squads) < 5 add conscripts to production roster.
• If fcn(Sov map control %) < (demand) change the demand_offset to increase the likelyhood that the AI will choose it.
• If Sov PoP = Pop Cap - 8, change the demand _offset for conscripts in the production roster to make conscripts the #1 choice for the next build. -JoJo the AI_ex (2 = VARIABLE) makes the AI produce the first or second best choice in the production roster (ignoring the .25 variance) It may make sense if not enough cappers are available to increase the AI_ex. (1= VARIABLE) to remove the .25 variance before the PoP => PoP CAP -6.

[jojorabbit]

I agree with you about that, there are tons of demands in game, like cappers  demand, unit demand, tech demad, defending demand etc. will create new Topic AI myths resolved  and there i will post about how AI works will try to ask devs to get it sticky. I will link myth topic with this one in.

About myth topic what do you want me to explain first?
Could you give me some list of myths you want to see in myth topic?
Other ideas suggestions?

BTW added to the list:
GAI006 - fix AI garrison vehicles problem
GAI007 - make AI mob support

[Otto Halfhand]

1. The biggest myth to debunk is that AI Spams are really necessary for the AI to work. 17 NI squads or 13 GschutzWns really are not necessary. Fixing this one would go a long way to debunking the second myth on my list:
2. Compstomping is an "Umanly" way to play CoH.

[jojorabbit]

I will go with myths like this:

1. Demand myth
2. The biggest myth to debunk is that AI Spams are really necessary for the AI to work. 17 NI squads or 13 GschutzWns really are not necessary. Fixing this one would go a long way to debunking the second myth on my list:
3. Compstomping is an "Umanly" way to play CoH.

Hope it is ok with you.

[jojorabbit]

RMC001 - I would like to hear you opinions about RMC, should AI use RMC reward faction or not? How often like 50%RMC-50%CW?

[Pac-Fish]

Well RMC is considered OP right now so I say they shouldn't use it atm at all.

[MBJrP36]

I have to admit I do not like the RMC as it is now, half the units like the Achilles and the SAS are OP, while units like the scout Jeeps are useless IMO. That said it does bother me tuat the computer does not use them, so I am willing to have them out there. 25-30% sounds right for the AI to use the RMC.