v1.6 What's your Soviet order of Battle?

[Cranialwizard]

Just out of curiosity, what is the recharge time of a Partisan squad . 30seconds? 45? And chances are your Partisan will get stopped before it can do effective dmg to you strat points. You might get 1 or 2 off out of all of this but IMO not that much more. I still stand firm on the belief that Partisans won't FULLY work the way Otto intends, although he is right about the fact they can harass well.

They are designed for what Otto has mentioned, however I think he might be blowing it a tad out of proportion. 2 partisan squads is 640 manpower...quite a bit to call in behind enemy lines simultaneously if you don't have a happy army to work with the enemy. They are meant for sabotage and disruption, but you can't gain 90-95% of a map within 2 minutes like stated above...it's just not going to happen. If strategic points are targetted a player's instinct will be to deploy some of his forces there to find the partisans and force a retreat. If he can force a retreat then the whole partisan operation is fried as they lose their position.

We're off topic a tad.

[jojorabbit]

Just out of curiosity, what is the recharge time of a Partisan squad . 30seconds? 45?

It is 40 seconds .

[Pac-Fish]

We're off topic a tad.

Well Otto thinks (I may be wrong) that Urban doesn't get enough attention or credit when it comes to over all strategies and tactics, and has given a strategy on how to halt the enemy using one of the Urban doctrine's call-ins: the Partisan . However they aren't AS effective IMO as Otto states. I have never lost a game due to Partisans. In fact I have yet to see  more than 1 or 2 of them. I will probably lose b/c of a Sniper Ace, but not Partisans

Just out of curiosity, what is the recharge time of a Partisan squad . 30seconds? 45?

It is 40 seconds .

Thx

[Killar]

If you have a fortifies defence of axis troops and cant get through Partisans pop out behind the lines and can attack. This is very devestating and one squad will change the game. Also flares will give the firebase the accuracy that it needs to focus a target. Urban doc is very powerful against a campy axis strat (wehr def).

[Otto Halfhand]

I have not clearly explained again.

• We all know there is a recharge time between availability of a second call-in.
• The 1st partizan to arrive camos/holds fire observing the pathing of advancing and retreating troops.
• some IEDs should be set around the SPs and on the retreat path. Quess what guys? Retreat pathing is controlled by the AI.
• After the 2nd Partizan deploys and maybe setups an IED.
• The partizans don't deliberately engage during this period.
• Both partizans decap and recap if possible. Then move to ambush location. I suggest the ambush take place midway between retreat path and SP.
• Artillery barrage blob if possible.

The disruption should last at least 2-3 minutes until the enemy gets one SP operational again. This is a guess. If you are getting 200MP/min and the axis is getting zilch it doesn't really matter if you get 640MP or not. You are still ahead of the game and are pretty much able to replace both partizans if they both get into trouble, (Especially when you consider the recharge time between call-ins). My guess is you can repeat the process in 9 minutes or less. There is no real way to time these things in game.

[Pac-Fish]

You realize when you say the enemy gets "zilch" they still receive MP. Sure, it might be like 10-12 less but they will still get it and that is ultimately the most important resource. Also Partisian mines aren't that powerful. They are after all, PE incendiary mines. They deal burn damage, not impact damage (like standard mines). And retreating units take less dmg (I think)

And to micro all of this would take a lot of time + resources away from the front lines, leaving you kind of vulnerable. And laying all of those mines would cost a lot of muni . Remember, your goal is to dislodge the enemy and take the VPs (assuming that you are losing in this situation, which someone probably would be)

[Otto Halfhand]

Your point concerning MPs is certainly valid. IIRC (3MP/SP, the total munis and FP of interdicted zones ) x the number of enemy factions in game. Plus the reduction in PoP Cap for each Faction. plus artillery barrage effects on the blob. IED's are long acting incendiaries and just passing through them reduces health quickly. Oh you wouldn't happen to have a squad sitting quietly in wait to attack each passing unit would you? (Excuse the sarcasm. I am not trying to be insulting).

The micro is real but its only two units, 12pop? the rest of your forces can be concentrated doing their thing . If you get into a fire-fight camo/hold fire with partizans until you have breathing room. You don't have to do this every nine minutes or what ever. This tactic is not going to win the game for you. It is a diversion done in a defensive manner. Your blob has to beat the enemy, unless of course you run down the clock. I don't think VPs are interdicted.

And you don't have to do this when your in the hole. It is not I repeat not a strat, is a part of a bigger strategy, I call the technique Soft strategy. It was invented by the Russians and used in Napoleon and Stalin's times. (At least that's what the Russians say). 

Cat Fishy, I'm glad to see you are getting into the spirit of the thing. It is not intended to be a who killed John, You win I lose  proposition. It is called synergy, the sum is greater than its parts. It is one of the ways the weaker can overcome the stronger. It is a tactic called Defencing.

[jojorabbit]

A little back to old post

Standard:
Ing (barracks) - CS - cons X3 - molos - T2a or b

Vehicles:
Ing (barracks) - CS - cons X4 - molos and/or NI as needed - T3 - T90/70s

Fast T2:
Ing X2 (barracks & caps) - CS - con X1-2 - T2 - Strelkyspam

For some test and observations i would like to hear more of these.

Thanks.

[GodlikeDennis]

2v2 Sniper start:
Ing x2 (build SSB) - T2b - Sniper x2 - either backtech to T1 and get CS/Strelky or get T2a for THs

You will need to spam mines in this build or you won't be able to defend against bikes properly, even with a good teammate.

[jojorabbit]

Thanks.
If i understood you these are:

TH -> Tank Hunters
SSB -> Soviet Support Barracks
CS -> Command Squad
T2b -> Medium Range Support (Enables Zis and sniper)
T2a -> Close Range Support (Enables Mortar and TankHunters)

[Cranialwizard]

Thanks.
If i understood you these are:

TH -> Tank Hunters
SSB -> Soviet Support Barracks
CS -> Command Squad
T2b -> Medium Range Support (Enables Zis and sniper)
T2a -> Close Range Support (Enables Mortar and TankHunters)

Precisely!

[jojorabbit]

2v2 Sniper start:
Ing x2 (build SSB) - T2b - Sniper x2 - either backtech to T1 and get CS/Strelky or get T2a for THs

You will need to spam mines in this build or you won't be able to defend against bikes properly, even with a good teammate.

I have a lot of questions

Lets say initial BO is:
make 2 x ing
build SSB
T2b
1 x Sniper

So you need some time for that for example 1-2min.

Q1: From that what will you do next?
1x sniper -> why? why not? please specify good reasons.

Q2: Lets say you play vs PE and you know he is going t2 and infantry halftracks.
Will you build 2nd sniper or not? Why? Why not?

Q3: What will make you to decide to go backtech to t1 and get Command Squad + Strelky?
Please Specify reasons vs PE and vs Wehr.

Q4: What will make you to decide to T2a and Tank Hunters.
Please Specify reasons vs PE and vs Wehr.

NOTE: Anyone can answer these questions. I need as much info as possible.

Thanks.

[Otto Halfhand]

 @JoJo: A couple of suggestions upfront for use in your work:

• You need to get a handle on production times. I don't have the resources to do this ATM.
• When considering an elapsed game time analysis  the FP gain rate is critical. 25 FP/min avg. for Wher to start (then 35FP/m,50FP/m for lower order effects). PE is trickier, maybe (25FP/m, 40FP/m, 50FP/m). Sov faction 25FP/m start, (this seems to be a default number).  Sovs 35fp/m 40fp/m 45FP/min seem to be optimum after 5 mins at 25FP/m avg gain. I think the elapsed time increments are 5 minutes;8 minutes; 10min.-SWAG. Again these values are for tech development not production.
• Sov AI build order (observed): ing/ing/T1/4conscripts and one ing.
• Wher AI build order (observed): for T1: VG/MG/MG/sniper two more VG fit in somewhere, probably a conditional probabilty matrix,(CPM).
• Wher AI build order (observed): for T2: ATG/AC/StuG
• PE AI build order 3PG - sometimes a ket shows up -CPM.
• Use normal difficulty for testing. Check your tests on hard. We have to deal with players here not stompers.

I'll get back to you to address your actual questions  when life allows.

EDIT: use whole numbers or rational fractions when possible IE 1/4, 1/3, 1/2. you'll recognize them when you see them. decimals to the nth power are only useful for justification to Bosses, Managers, Kibbitzers and other anal retentive types.

[Otto Halfhand]

Apologies to all who may be baffled by my last post. It was supposed to be a PM to JoJo But postedhere @ maintenance time. I wondered where it went.