v1.6 Tank Riders

[Otto Halfhand]

I finally got around to checking out the tank riders call-in in v1.6. I am not impressed. In fact I am horribly disappointed that the T34/85 option was dropped. I have never been happy with the Tk vs Tk accuracy of the T34/76 and found I needed two T34/76s to engage in satisfying Tank combat, ie ranged combat. The T34/85 is fine in this regard and I do not mind paying a premium in time and resources to get it. In fact delaying T3 and going straight to the armory upgrade was one of the more enticing aspects of Breakthrough.

I beg you'all please restore the T34/85 tank rider option.

[GodlikeDennis]

It's too strong a tank to arrive with a complement of guards from off-map. Removing the 85mm option from the Breakthrough callin was a great idea from Paciat to limit the overpoweredness of this ability. It's still very strong but is more vulnerable to Stugs, P4s and other lighter tank options.

[Trooper425]

What about a more expensive version? Say unlocking the T-34/85 in the tank depot unlocks the respective tank riders call-in? This would give players the option of spending more for better tanks.

[GodlikeDennis]

That's how it was and was OP.

[bopokippo]

i think he means that it unlocks a more expensive tank rider call-in...

[Killar]

i think he means that it unlocks a more expensive tank rider call-in...

and dennis means we had this already

[Trooper425]

Already had it? I only remember unlocking the 85. Please allow me to clarify, I suggest having the 76 tank riders unlocked normally (by command points). To get 85 tank riders one must unlock tank riders through command points AND unlock the 85 tank in the tank hall. Only when this is done will 85 tank riders be available, and even then they will be quite expensive.

[SublimeSnugz]

I beg you'all please restore the T34/85 tank rider option.

No fucking way. The 85mm upgrade callin was clearly OP not to mention the guards rideing on it. It shouldent return, its stupid being able to upgrade a callin unit like that.

[Blackbishop]

It's cost was rised for testing, don't remember if was part of the public version or only for our internal build, but it was still seen as OP so it was removed.

Maybe when the new models for soviets come, it can be implemented an individual upgrade but atm it is not going to be returned.

[Pac-Fish]

Please allow me to clarify, I suggest having the 76 tank riders unlocked normally (by command points). To get 85 tank riders one must unlock tank riders through command points AND unlock the 85 tank in the tank hall.

This is what they are trying to say. This idea was already in use. Maybe you played this mod after this concept was removed but having them now is pretty much OP. Especially with their Guards.

[stealthattack1]

topic = answered.

[Cranialwizard]

This belongs in Balance Discussion anyway.

[Otto Halfhand]

I can not believe this crap that the T34/85 tank riders is OP. Are you suggesting the T34/85 itself is OP.

• Look at all of the other call-in tanks for the EF Theater: Tiger, Tiger II, Panther BG. The T34/85 is OP compared to these tanks?
• An armory upgrade is necessary to make the T34/85 option available. IIRC this is a unique requirement for a doctrinal call-in. An additional armory upgrade is necessary to give the Shock Gd squad full capabilities.
• The call-in allows capping like a PE scout car and gives one squad motorized transport at a 30 MP, 90FP discount. Are these the characteristics that make this option OP?
• Using Breakthrough with a conscript/TH start and mechanics you can be producing T34/85s before you get 6CPs. Using Propaganda and a conscript start you can be producing T34/85s before you get 5 CPs.

If indeed the T34/85 tank riders option is OP, ....then NI at 2CP: 5SVTs, 1.5 capping speed molotovs, no need to produce Strelky, no need to produce THs , no sense in upgrading Shock GDs to 3SVTs, no need for RBS or MAT upgrades, etc. etc. etc ... Is Certainly OP and needs to be seriously addressed.
Topic not answered. 

[Trooper425]

I have to agree with Otto on this. Having an upgrade-required t-34/85 call-in doesn't seem OP at all.

-Currently the benefit of tank riders is that the tank can cap points. Even an entry lever commander (i.e. me) can move infantry up behind the tank to cap, just like every other faction.
-To get the tank riders on 85s you would have to be able to build 85s already. This is a bigger limit than the current tank riders call-in.
-Calling in 85s is less OP than calling in a Tiger or Panthers (Panthers were DESIGNED to counter t-34s).
-The 85 costs 20mp 10fp more than the 76 from the tank hall.

The presence of the 85 isn't challenged, calling in tank riders on a 76 isn't debated, and the small jump in price from the 76 to the 85 is accepted without complaint. Please explain how a t-34/85 tank riders call-in (requiring the 85mm gun upgrade) is overpowered.

[Pac-Fish]

Im under the impression that the 85mm on TRs (Tanks riders abbreviated) is considered OP due its spammablility (not really a real word but you know what I mean). In the long run you could spam alot of these and with their 85mm gun, they could shred through armor and gun down infantry with their new AI Guards, something that a regular 85mm T-34 lacks, AI power. The cappng is not the reason they are so desired or OP, really its the spam. B4 the guards were invulnerable to gunfire as well, making them super tanks. Its like PBG. Expensive as hell to get to but once you start using it more and more, the savings add up .