Russian Manpower gains

[Otto Halfhand]

In CoH, your MP is a function of:

270/min + (3/min/point) - upkeep

The way upkeep is actually calculated is on a per-entity basis. Resources are updated every 1/8th of a second. A single rifleman has 0.005 upkeep. There are 6 in a squad. Upkeep is evaluated 480 times in one minute. So calculated upkeep means:

0.005 x 6 x 480 = 14.4MP/min upkeep

Losing entities from the squad will mean lower upkeep. It's part of the reason why US and Soviets need to be more aggressive than other factions. By being in combat constantly, they can reduce the amount of upkeep they pay considerably.

• The v1.6 changelog indicates Partizan upkeep is set at 1.4/min. is this per squad or per man?
• Isn't there a small adjustment to the MP gain rate for each muni point and FP you contol as well?
• What is the muni Upkeep rate for Stormovie in v1.6? (Both in /tick and /min rates please).

Just what does the "extra reserves" upgrade in the Armory actually do?

As far as i know, it gives modifier to players manpower upkeep by multiplying it with 0.7, i guess it reduces upkeep by 30%....

To put this in perspective, (If I understand correctly), assuming you have a 270 MP gain rate,  at the instant the "weapons reserve" upgrade activates, your gain rate in the next tick would jump to ~385 MP gain rate.

[GodlikeDennis]

No, it only reduces the upkeep part. So it for example, MP income = 270(base) + 18 (you have 6 points captured on the map) - [50 (upkeep) x 0.7(reduction from upgrade)] = 253

Partisan:
0.002916mp/tick = ~1.4mp/min/man = ~7mp/min/full squad

Sturmovie:
0.0083mp/tick = 3.984mp/min/man = 15.936mp/min/full squad

0.0018mu/tick = 0.864mu/min/man = 3.456mu/min/full squad

[jojorabbit]

Partisan upkeep 0.002916 x 8 (ticks) x 60(seconds) = 1.39968 mp/min rounded to 1.4
they have 5 man in squad = 1.39968 * 5 = 6.9984 -> rounded to 7


A1: It is per man 1.39968 mp/min
A3: I think there is no muni update am not sure.

Q1: Partisans take 5 population but in the description of ability it says 6 even if they take 5 is that bug or?

To put this in perspective, (If I understand correctly), assuming you have a 270 MP gain rate,   at the instant the "weapons reserve" upgrade activates, your gain rate in the next tick would jump to ~385 MP gain rate.

I did a little test for you. Test was made without any captured points.
Here are results:

Starting manpower: 270 mp/min
After deploying 1st partisan squad manpower income : 263 mp/min or 270 - 7 upkeep from partisan (1 squad)
After deploying 2nd partisan squad manpower income: 256 mp/min or 270 - 7x2 upkeep from partisan (2 squads)
After deploying 3rd partisan squad manpower income: 249 mp/min or 270 - 7x3 upkeep from partisan (3 squads)

Building Armory manpower income: 251 mp/min gives +3 why? -> Armory reduces 10% upkeep or multiply by 0.9
So 270 - 7x3 x 0.9 (armory) = 270 - 21 x 0.9 = 270 - 18.9 (round to 19) = 251 mp/min

Weapon reserve upgrade manpower income 258 mp/min

If you take starting mp 270 - 3(squads) x  7(partisan squad upkeep) x 0.70 (weapon reserve upgrade)
= 270 - 3 x 4.9 (partisan upkeep after weapon reserve upgrade)
= 270 - 14.69664 (rounded to 15)

makes current income : 255 + those 3 that i mentioned up there for armory = exactly 258 mp/min

[GodlikeDennis]

The armoury itself grants a small (10%?) reduction in upkeep as well. Additionally, the CS reduces upkeep as it vets. These are the 3 ways Soviets can mitigate their upkeep.

[jojorabbit]

Tnx.
Ye it is true did not saw that, it also has some munition upkeep reduce like 2% why that?

Q: What if I build 2-3-4 armory buildings? Every building will add 10% right?

Post corrected.

[Otto Halfhand]

The armoury itself grants a small (10%?) reduction in upkeep as well. Additionally, the CS reduces upkeep as it vets. These are the 3 ways Soviets can mitigate their upkeep.

• Are the armory plus "weapons reserves" upgrade bonuses additive or multiplicative? IE 1.0-( .1 .3)=.6 or .9*.7=.63
• Does the CS bonus effect all units or just infantry? BTW this bonus is not documented in changelog v1.6.
• Do conscripts have an MP upkeep costs?
• @Rizz please consider adding required EXP/vet level for all units where vet is cited in changelog.

...Q: What if I build 2-3-4 armory buildings? Every building will add 10% right? ...

I like the way you think but suspect if it is true it will soon go away. It is an exploit.
BTW If you accidentally or purposely build multiple T2/T3 the game engine may not recognize you have built the various upgrades. Meaning no firebase and /or IS2. I don't know if this condition applies after you have unlocked all options and build say a second T2.

[jojorabbit]

• Are the armory plus "weapons reserves" upgrade bonuses additive or multiplicative? IE 1.0-( .1 .3)=.6 or .9*.7=.63

I think they are multiplicative not 100% sure.

   

• Does the CS bonus effect all units or just infantry? BTW this bonus is not documented in changelog v1.6.

If you mean CS upkeep bonus then i think it affects all.
CS on each vet level gives 0.88 multiplication or 12%.

IMO on vet 3 CS gives 0.681 multiplication or 32%. Well not so easy to achieve a lot of fighting, and never lose CS.
Reminds on 2nd supply yard upgrade where you need 140 fuel.

   

• Do conscripts have an MP upkeep costs?

Conscripts and inginery do not have upkeep costs.
But when Ingenery are Sturmovie Ingenery (i mean equipped with assault gear) then they have upkeep:
manpower: 0.0083 and munition 0.0018

I like the way you think but suspect if it is true it will soon go away. It is an exploit.
BTW If you accidentally or purposely build multiple T2/T3 the game engine may not recognize you have built the various upgrades. Meaning no firebase and /or IS2. I don't know if this condition applies after you have unlocked all options and build say a second T2.

I also think it will go away

Ok so for the soviets we have different ways to reduce upkeep.

1. Build Armory reduces it by 10%
2. Upgrade Weapons reserves reduces it by 30%
3. Fight with Command Squad to get vet each vet lvl gets 12%

Experts correct me if am wrong.

[GodlikeDennis]

Yes, that's correct. I thought there were additive though.

US supply yard gives 25% reduction for the building itself, and 25% for each upgrade. Should work out to be fairly similar to the Soviet reductions.

[jojorabbit]

Am not sure they are additive, maybe this could help.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?144512-1.51-Production-upgrade&p=2251103#post2251103

[Otto Halfhand]

Am not sure they are additive, maybe this could help.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?144512-1.51-Production-upgrade&p=2251103#post2251103

The cited post indicates Supply yard bonuses are multiplicative. IE you get a smaller bonus than you appear to get from the raw numbers.

[jojorabbit]

Link in my last post refers to old stuff.

I forgot to say that there is upkeep threshold for each faction.

So:
American: 6
Wehrmacht: 14
British: 12
Panzer Elite: 12
Soviet: 6

That means if you playing as american, you won't receive any upkeep penalty for first 6 population.

Another test:

1x starting eng (3 pop) -> no pop 6 so no upkeep.

Rifleman upkeep: 2.4 mp/min (man) whole squad 14.4 mp/min ~ 15 mp/min



Starting manpower: 270 mp/min
Deploying one eng so we have 6 pop.

After deploying 1st rifleman squad manpower income : 255 mp/min
or 270 - 14.4 upkeep from rifleman (1 squad) = 255,6 mp/min ~ 255 mp/min (it would be exactly 255 if 14.14 ~ 15)

After deploying 2nd rifleman squad manpower income: 241 mp/min
or 270 - 14.4x2 upkeep from rifleman (2 squads) = 241,2 mp ~ 241 mp/min

After deploying 3rd rifleman squad manpower income: 226 mp/min
or 270 - 14.4x3 upkeep from rifleman (3 squads) = 226.8 mp/min ~ 226 mp/min

We have 2 engy(3 pop) and 3 rifleman(6 pop) = 3x2 + 6x3 = 6 + 18 = 24 pop

So we are losing 14.4 x 3 mp for upkeep = 43.2 mp/min 
and we have income 270 - 43.2 = 226.7 ~ 226 mp/min

Building supply yard manpower income: 237 mp/min
now we are losing : 43.2 x 0.75 = 32.4 and income is 270 - 35 = 237.6 ~ 237 mp/min

1st supply yard upgrade manpower income: 246 mp/min
now we are losing 43.2 x 0.54375 = 23.49 and income is 270 - 23.49 = 246.51 ~ 246 mp/min

2nd supply yard upgrade manpower income: 255 mp/min
now we are losing 43.2 x 0.32625 = 14.094 = 255.906 ~ 255 mp/min


Another calculation:
3 x rifleman -> 14.4 mp/min but with all upgrades 4.698 mp/min upkeep per 1 rifleman squad.


Supply Yard benefits can be checked http://companyofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Supply_Yard.

[Otto Halfhand]

Does the Zis ambulance contribute to the MP upkeep burden?

It occurs to me that delaying the Arrival of CS can improve early production:

• when the CS arrives you a 1 pt. away from the upkeep threshold. The next non Ing/conscript unit you deploy will start the MP upkeep drain. A CS costs ~ the same as an ING and Conscript combined and takes much longer to produce. Thus you can have twice as many cappers on the field up front.
• THe CS is a priority target. Reinforce - 35? Ing reinforce - 18? Conscript reinforce - 17?
• The CS really starts picking up vet only after upgraded to PPS. which IIRC requires 160 FP. 160-35=125 FP. At 25 FP/min average early gain 5 min. of MP (270-255)*5=75MP plus any savings accrued from reinforce savings.
• What is the CS upkeep burden and the Sniper upkeep Burden?
• Its a trade-off but perhaps worth considering.

[jojorabbit]

Does the Zis ambulance contribute to the MP upkeep burden?

Yes Zis ambulance upkeep value is 0.015 or 7.2 mp/min

As by Unit list here: http://easternfront.org/?p=units&name=Ingenery
CS - reinforce : 34
Ing - reinforce: 19
Conscript - reinforce: 18

If link refers to old version tell me so i can check values.

I wrote a little macro for upkeep few weeks ago here is soviet infantry

Sniper Ace (0.020833 mp upkeep)
Sharshooter (0.015 mp upkeep)
Guards (0.0083 mp upkeep)
Sturmovie Inginery (0.0083 mp upkeep 0.0018 mun upkeep)
Naval Infantry (0.005 mp upkeep)
Command Squad (0.0042 mp upkeep)
Tank Hunters (0.0042 mp upkeep)
Strelky (0.003mp upkeep)
Partisans (0.002916 mp upkeep)
Mortar (0.002604 mp upkeep)
Mehanics (0.002083 mp upkeep)
Inginery (0 mp upkeep)
Conscripts (0 mp upkeep)

Rest is easy to calculate .
Hope it helps.

[Otto Halfhand]

Does the construction of the Armory, its upgrade or arrival of the CS have any effect on muni and FP gain rates or burden?

[GodlikeDennis]

ZiS-5 upkeep was removed for the next patch. No other med station has upkeep, so it shouldn't either.

The upkeep reductions only affect MP income.