T-70 and T-90

[bopokippo]

I believe these to be the most lackluster units in the SU arsenal. They come out too late to fill their niche, and both are terrible against the things they are not designed counter. They are relatively expensive, and the T-70 is nothing more than an ATHT in tank form. T-70s are good against what... halftracks? By the time a T-70 is out, a wehr can easily have StuGs, Paks, and schreked grens. PE can have schreks and AT halftracks, maybe even marders. T-90s are only good against infantry but can't use speed to evade AT weapons quickly so that's out the window. Solutions?

1. decrease cost or decrease teching cost.

2. Increase effectiveness of T-70 vs infantry. Change T-90 to T-60 (20mm ShvAk autocannon. Many more T-60s were made than T-90s so I see this as reasonable) to give deadlier mid-long range firepower.

3. Give them a stationary camouflage ability like hetzers. There are many reports of T-60 and 70s ambushing german troops as they moved through wheat fields.

Thoughts? Am I just not using them right? Cause an M8 feels like a cheaper, stronger, faster to come out combination of the two.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Both the t70 and t90 arrive at 55+45+35 fuel, means 135 fuel in total. To get an M8 you need 50+45+30 = 125 fuel. To get a Puma you need 35+50+35 + 35 = 155 fuel. We increased the values because the t90 arrived faster than a pak during 1.5.0.0.

Both tanks are not useless. The T-90 has detection against snipers similar to the jeep, shreds infantry at medium and close range and is quite resilient against Panzerschrecks. The only thing which causes problems is the Pak, however US army got the same problem.  t-70 deals higher damage to tanks and has higher penetration values than an M8 has.
To use them efficiently you need to find out where the pak is, then flank or arty it so it has to change its position. Then you can attack & destroy it with your tanks + infantry and run rampage.

[GodlikeDennis]

Seconded. T90s and T70s are very effective at what they do. The T90 has the very useful detection which can help greatly against Paks. They come at 55+55+35 = 145FU though, still pretty early.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Isnt the light tankovy upgrade 45 fuel? At least that's the value I think of when I upgrade light tankovy.

The reason why soviet tanks take a little more to tech are the following reasons:

Soviets have multiple options to clear defensive positions, either manpower+ fuel heavy or ammonition heavy.

Option 1) Heavy Mortars for 60 fuel - comparable to US Bar rifle upgrade cost wise. US cant do the same as efficiently, because their Mortar kind of sucks.
Option 2) Get an Artillery spotter for Offmap strikes - very effective but costs alot. US can only use arty early if they choose Inf doctrine.
Option 3) Use Sturmovie Ingenery, US equivalent would be doctrinal Paratroopers.
Option 4) Use snipers to kill paks - US can do that, too.
Option 5) Command Squad Artillery, heroic charge into the defense position

And there are some more options to pound Wehr AT units early on. As you can see, you are very flexible even without choosing a certain doctrine as Soviets, and that
s what Soviets are all about: Choosing the right techs in the armoury to counter the enemy.

[bopokippo]

Ok but what are T-70s good against other than what an M8 is not even though m8s might be slightly worse? as far as I'm concerned, it can only do so much vs medium and heavy vehicles.

next, could you still put the T-60 in as a reward unit?

[Jeff 'Robotnik' W.]

they are good as is, also most units have a hard time hitting them due to their received accuracy multipliers

[Tankbuster]

you forgot to mention that T-70s can Circle strafe Stugs while the T-90 tears a new hole in the Hindquarters of G - Wagens.

[stealthattack1]

these units do not need a buff or any other change. why? as stated by GLD and darc.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Ok but what are T-70s good against other than what an M8 is not even though m8s might be slightly worse? as far as I'm concerned, it can only do so much vs medium and heavy vehicles.

next, could you still put the T-60 in as a reward unit?

The t-70 is more comparable to a british Tetrarch - its a fast moving small tank that can seriously damage StuGs and Pumas. Its also good for hunting down nebelwerfers, Stukas and Hummels, because its basically a little tank, and not a light vehicle.

That's what it is used for. The t-90 can be used for sniper hunting, decrewing paks, mgs and killing off capping infantry and so on.
If you think you don't need them don't build them.

[fr3akypl]

I love T-70!!! But you must remember that it is not antitank unit, it works very well for hunting nebels, alone squads and all >Pe light vechicles<.
In group of 3 or more(which I usually do if i play with t-70) are effective against stug IV, Marders, flank AT's, rush through defense lines. Speed is the most important feature, you just need to know how use them. And it's cheap!!! 

In my opinion is very good balanced unit.
I'm not using T-90 almost ever, but it should stay like antitroop spam weapon.

[Killar]

If you play as PE and go for AC spam and face a T70 you know you gonna loose.

[fr3akypl]

sorry what is AC?

[neosdark]

sorry what is AC?

Panzer Elite "Armored Car"

[fr3akypl]

so, then....

If you play as PE and go for AC spam and face a T70 you know you gonna loose.

is true

generally well balanced game should should give ability to stop all kinds of spam

[Killar]

Best way to beat PE is to build vehicles. Especially T70 and T90 are effective. Also light tankovy has a powerful tankdestroyer Su76 which deals with PanzerIV.