Airborne = Useless

[Monos]

How do you get map advantage against MP40's without Bars and just afjew rifles? =P

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

U CANT WIN AXIS ITS

[Monos]

  haha

[stealthattack1]

this thread has evolved too fast, so i wont really try to adress everthing, but airbourne support is a great command tree, and also, IMO one of the most fun. strafing run is extremely effective against blobbing PG's, and any other infantry. also you dont need map control because you get paradrops.

[Panzer4life]

i love airborne, they are highly useful against wehr or PE players with recoiless rifles. For anti infantry, get their grenade upgrade, and then get bars on your rifleman. Any bars the rifleman drop, get your airborne to pick up, then airborne become Iron Men. Also, try using satchels against slow moving heavy tanks, they are funny to see die in that fashion.

Another thing to consider is that Airborne can reinforce anywhere. So if you lose them like mad, make them sprint and find a place for them to hide an reinforce. Also, it helps greatly to get the supply yard upgrades, for it applies to airborne as well as rifleman.

Also, to wehr players, if you want to screw with airborne, get either vet 3 KCH or strom troopers, and then build Ostwinds, those will kill airborne fairly well. For PE, go Luftwaffe and counter their airborne with Fallschrmijagers and flakwerwing or Wirbelwind. Also, butterfly bombs can be used to protect choke-points and high munitions point.

[Monos]

i love airborne, they are highly useful against wehr or PE players with recoiless rifles. For anti infantry, get their grenade upgrade, and then get bars on your rifleman. Any bars the rifleman drop, get your airborne to pick up, then airborne become Iron Men. Also, try using satchels against slow moving heavy tanks, they are funny to see die in that fashion.

Another thing to consider is that Airborne can reinforce anywhere. So if you lose them like mad, make them sprint and find a place for them to hide an reinforce. Also, it helps greatly to get the supply yard upgrades, for it applies to airborne as well as rifleman.

Also, to wehr players, if you want to screw with airborne, get either vet 3 KCH or strom troopers, and then build Ostwinds, those will kill airborne fairly well. For PE, go Luftwaffe and counter their airborne with Fallschrmijagers and flakwerwing or Wirbelwind. Also, butterfly bombs can be used to protect choke-points and high munitions point.

Only one problem.
RR's don't work against Pumas, and sticky spam is expensive and you need to get close. Satchel on Puma.. nah man, the dude gotta be quite non-carefull to die to that.

Thats the whole point about this thread. Me pissed because:
Rangers kill Pumas, Airborne refuses too to. Ergo you lose the game unless you go fast MP or TD.

Which means.. If you play against an amri player, go T3 if he goes fast bars and airborne.. He is chanceless if you go quick and cap all the fuel with dual or maby tripple puma =)

[stealthattack1]

where did you think that RR's dont work against pumas? they do great. also, command tree's are meant to accent your armies, not make up for them. if someone is "chanceless" because they so called picked the wrong doctrine, then this game is not balanced in the least. if you play as doctrine reliant, you should learn to not be so reliant on your dictinal pick. its more of off- map support, nothing more, nothing less. i sometimes dont even pick a doctrine because i am still undecided, and then i win the game and i say to myself "whups, didnt mean to do that." mines combined with sticky bombs shred pumas. you are correct though, i heavily doubt that any vehicle, unless immovable will die by satchel charge. the timer is just too long.

[EasyCalic]

Also, paras don't cost fuel, get an AT gun, M8 or rush to get some X-men (wolverines).

[Monos]

where did you think that RR's dont work against pumas?

Phase-bug? And also excessive testing lately. They just don't hit them, ever. Or maby my game is broken but i doubt it.

Only other option for anti-puma weapon is eather fast teching, rangers or 30'Cal AP rounds. Like when you skip tier 2 with wehr when you go blitzkrieg and use stormtroops as main infantry instead of grenadiers. Doctrines do matter alot.

But you are right about one thing, maby i should wait and see what my opponent does. Fast Puma = Infantry doc.

Maps are quite large, you need alot of mines to cover every choke and only engineers can make them without infantry doc\m8.
Though mines are awesome, placing all your trust in acouple mines to make you win seems... You get the point.
Sticky's won't hit unless your really lucky. And you need 4-5 of them to destroy a PUMA. You slow it down alittle but then your squads allready at 2men, and he has his volks supporting.

Tanktraps at all chokes to enemy base is a more reliable strategy at semois. As long as they don't see you place them and kill you. Just to buy time to get AT guns and M8's ofcourse.

This is not possible on langres or angoville. Unless you try to cover the whole map.

Also, paras don't cost fuel, get an AT gun, M8 or rush to get some X-men (wolverines).

Rangers and AT guns don't cost fuel eather? Whats your point? AT-gun and M8 requires fast teching and thus little to no infantry play early on. Since you don't get infantry upgrade by just advancing to tier 2. You need upgrades which depletes your fuel and leaves you with one choice.. Use rangers or get stomped by the Puma.




LAST NOTE:

We all have agreed allready that airborne do not work against PUMA's. So is there any other way than fastteching\chosing infantry doc when you need to counter fast PUMA?

Is 30'Cal viable for PUMA hunting?

[stealthattack1]

i would doubt it. the only time i use that ability is against PE's halftracks and scout cars. its great against light vehicles, but not light tanks.

[EasyCalic]

Also, paras don't cost fuel, get an AT gun, M8 or rush to get some X-men (wolverines).

Rangers and AT guns don't cost fuel eather? Whats your point? AT-gun and M8 requires fast teching and thus little to no infantry play early on. Since you don't get infantry upgrade by just advancing to tier 2. You need upgrades which depletes your fuel and leaves you with one choice.. Use rangers or get stomped by the Puma.

Now, look here. You should never have problems with a Puma since those usually should be hitting the field at the same time as your ATs if you didn't spend everything on other things.

If you're getting stomped by a puma, you did something wrong earlier in the game, like relying solely on infantry which, funnily enough, is countered effectively by (who would have guessed?) Pumas. So my point, Monos , is that you're making a mistake somewhere down the line.

I'm guessing you get your rifles some BARs, nades and stickies as soon as you can. Don't. At most you just give them some BARs if you're dominating early game, if that's not the case, forgetting about BARs and teching to motor is practically a must. You can then upgrade stickies to help against vehicles.

As for hunting Pumas, it's been said already that mines do help a lot, so do rangers' bazookas (don't just charge rangers in though, they're infantry too you know?), besides mines, an AT gun or an M8.

And, hey, it also turns out that even if axis isn't rushing pumas, an M8 still gives excellent support to rifles against everything but paks.

[Monos]

But i like to tech for snipers to countersnipe win engagements. Thats extra fuel used + bars. I usally don't get grenades and reserch sticky's if the PUMA is out before my MP. Since the wehrmacht will cap the whole map if i don't slow them down, and then it's GG.

PIATs and BRENS can take out PUMAS.. Tank-hunters destroy PUMAS and are much quicker to tech for.
Just like the Wehrmachts grenaders destroys that M8 with bazooka, same with PE.

It's only against americans you don't need to support your vehicle with nothing. You can just spam PUMA's ... Use 1 engi-squad with mine-sweeper.. And if he's M8 ain't up in time, you can fortify the perimiter with all the AT you need to counter it. THEN it's GG. Since 2 PUMAs destroy one squad of men in one volley if not unlucky.


Axis ain't forced to skip infantry upgrades to get vehicles, since they got a straight tech-line. Unfair.



Now if you go infantry tree, you don't need vehicles right away and can keep some of your mapcontrol until you tech on up. Since a puma won't rush in towards 2 rangersquads with no support and destroy them. Also when you got mines and stuff on the field and generally try to play smart you can trap the PUMA and destroy it. (unlike airborne)


But you say, WSC shouldn't be used alot, rather start going for vehicles then if i don't go infantry tree.

[EasyCalic]

You do know that snipers are not the only counter to snipers, right?

With barracks you get the, admittedly a bit weak, jeep, it works wonders against snipers, and helps a lot when flanking mgs or supporting rifles against volks. A WSC the beginning is nothing but a liability if you intend to build both it and the barracks.

Also, it's not recommended to have a wsc from the get-go unless you are on a 2v2, for the simple reason that it does not provide Amis with what they need to win in the early game, namely rifles. The usual build order is:

Barracks
Supply D.
Motor pool

If axis is too entrenched with AT guns and bunkers you can then backtech to WSC and get the now helpful and viable mortars and snipers.

While not set in stone, this is usually the ideal way to go for Amis.

Anyways, I repeat and stress, you do not fight pumas with infantry, Pumas eat and shit infantry for breakfast, your best solution is an ATg coupled with some mines and/or a M8.

Also, M8's mines can and will destroy Puma.

[Pac-Fish]

I didnt read EVERYTHING but in you are right in the RR aren't so hot vs Pumas. HOWEVER you should have an M8 by this point or an AT gun from your Motor Pool so it shouldn't really matter just how great RRs are against Pumas. Unless you lost control of the map. Then thats your fault, sorry . Just to compare fuel cost if you teched straight for vehicles and skipped T2 wehr (so you don't think its unfair)

US: 15+50+45+30 = 140 total
Wehr: 15+35+50+50+35 = 185 total

So honestly you have no reason to think Wehr is at a fuel advantage. Even if you do get WSC you will have less fuel needs as Wehr. Just use RRs against tanks like StuG and Panther. Even Panzer IV or Ostwind if you must.

Now the AP rounds rounds for the .30 cal WILL kill it, granted it can get enough shots off. BUT it is highly unreliable and extremely situational. Chances are the Puma will just go around you and gun you down. So I recommend using mines to paralyze the Puma. Put one at a choke point or near you MG team (I've done that with AT guns and it worked ) to stop the Puma from circling. However this will cost a reasonable amount of muni and I suggest you do it only if you expect to be delayed with your M8.

i would doubt it. the only time i use that ability is against PE's halftracks and scout cars. its great against light vehicles, but not light tanks.

A Puma is not a tank . It can take bullet damage (although not alot ofc)

[EasyCalic]

Thanks for the backup, fish.