Veterancy

[Killar]

CS vet grants a offensive (5% more accuracy) or defensive (5% less received accuracy) bonus. Its all about accuracy not damage.

Dunno the exact values for upkeep reduction per vet level but afaik its 15%.

Remember: Every buff for conscripts makes strelky less attractive.

[Cranialwizard]

Remember: Every buff for conscripts makes strelky less attractive.

Especially this. Why the hell would you pay more for strelky whom also can carry 7 rifles if you just buff the hell out of conscripts?

There's no need for a change I feel. If you get vet 3 on Conscripts you're just a lucky guy.

It's like trying to get vet on a jeep in the late game where there are panthers and tanks going everywhere. Why? What are you going to do kill the panther with a jeep? It's just not practical.

[GodlikeDennis]

Conscripts gain no combat bonuses from vet IIRC and it'll stay that way. Instead, they become cheaper and better at capping etc. to help them scale a little bit in a fodder/capper role lategame. For main infantry you should be switching to Strelky.

[krupp steel]

So the CS vet will make squads 15% better accuracy/received accuracy at vet 3?   

[Pac-Fish]

Not necessarily. It not added. It multiplicative.

So 105% of 100 is 105

105% of 105 is 110.25

105% of 110.25% is 115.8

Therefore a 15.8% increase

So there is slightly more accuracy. Not a huge amount but still

[krupp steel]

To be honest what squads get from with vet 3 compared to USA is a bit UP if you ask me.  20% more damage is nothing to the Riflemen's 50% along with all the other accuracy bonuses it has.  Considering the 15.8% more accuracy still id rather have the Vet3 Riflemen vet than global vet and a vet3 Soviet squad.  With the supply upgrades and barracks upgrades BAR riflemen can get their vet not much longer than the soviets can and are somewhat better.  Vet 3 Bar riflemen can take on vet 3 Knights Cross or even vet 3 dual STG44 upgrades if in cover.  I cant think of any other vet 3 Soviet unit even with a vet 3 Command Squad who's vet is that powerful other than the unsuppressable vet 3 Russian Guards.

[Pac-Fish]

You must realize rifles are the USA's ONLY non doctrinal infantry. SU has access to Guards which ROFLPWN everything up to vet 3 Storms and KCH.

And AFAIK vet 3 rifleman squad will lose to vet 3 KCH unless the rifles surpress them and nade them to death. But even then KCH have assault which breaks it.  IDK what gave you the notion they would win. Especially if FTFL or IA activates.

[krupp steel]

Try to get a vet 3 BAR riflemen squad and see how much it rapes vet 3 grendiers/Volks or kch and you will never underestimate them again, just keep them stationary vs kch.  No really, at vet 3 they have 55% more accuracy and 50% more damage for their offensive compared to when they first started off not including the BARs which increase the squads fire power by another 50%.  The last thing you want is for them to pick up a Schreck.

Note all other infantry, airborne, rangers, engineers, etc have a 50% bonus to damage at vet 3.  Don't even get me started on how veterancy 3 thompson rangers kill everything (although they are very rare since they don't get veterancy reduction requirements that BARs give to riflemen and don't kill tanks that easily like airborne).

You know what I should do? Soviet vs USA.  Using NHC mod and see how vet 3 riflemen or rangers stand up to vetted soviet infantry .  unfortunately there is a bug in which if I do this soviets get 2x more manpower rate (500+).  Or 3 vet 3 Lieutants Brit blob vs soviet blob  .  This will be stupid but very interesting.

[GodlikeDennis]

You can do that already in EF by using automatch.

Vet3 rifles are indeed awesome but Soviets have MUCH lower requirements. This changes by endgame for US of course but Soviets also have a heap of global upgrades and CS vet to keep them going. Also, Soviets were never designed as a quality infantry faction like US. They have spam infantry that is economical and then they tech to their excellent tanks.

[krupp steel]

You can do that already in EF by using automatch.

Vet3 rifles are indeed awesome but Soviets have MUCH lower requirements. This changes by endgame for US of course but Soviets also have a heap of global upgrades and CS vet to keep them going. Also, Soviets were never designed as a quality infantry faction like US. They have spam infantry that is economical and then they tech to their excellent tanks.

I think I am using the Soviets the wrong way all this time them .  Almost never made T34s hehe or used the tank depot at all unless it is really late game.  I usually just spammed either stormovie engineers or PPSH Strelky and relied on the AI to lend me his paks right after I decreed them.

[Pac-Fish]

Try to get a vet 3 BAR riflemen squad and see how much it rapes vet 3 grendiers/Volks or kch and you will never underestimate them again

No one said vet 3 rifles sucked. I just don't think they can beat vet3 KCH. KCH are powerful too you know.

And tbh if you're fighting AI all you need to do is spam certain SU units . Like Sturmovie

And pitting US vs SU is not a true test of balance. The two factions work and perform differently. Its like COH mirror matches. They don't test balance.

[krupp steel]

As I stated above, try out yourself and you will know who the winner is . Also US is backwards for SU I just noticed that.  I almost always play against the AI on this mod because I can't seem to find anyone who isn't multiplayer compstomping or doing a 1v1.

Anyways, I am not testing for balance, just for the fun of it. Inenery vs Engineers or conscripts vs riflemen, stumovie vs up-gunned rangers, etc.  Just screwing around with the EF mod. 

[Pac-Fish]

I have tried it. Thats why I know. But in a larger fight with more than just 1 lone rifle squad and 1 lone KCH. Most of the time it won't JUST be those two head on. I play COH to you know . I don't just read statistics.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Try to get a vet 3 BAR riflemen squad and see how much it rapes vet 3 grendiers/Volks or kch and you will never underestimate them again

No one said vet 3 rifles sucked. I just don't think they can beat vet3 KCH. KCH are powerful too you know.

Afaik even vet 2 riflemen already beat up vet 3 kch quite easily. USA vet >>> Wehr vet in terms of power. Balanced by the fast that USA needs to earn it by fighting.

However, what you guys are forgetting is: Soviet smgs and rifles deal higher base damage in general, and are much better on all ranges than US rifles, so even if soviets get weaker veterancy boni they're still on par USA vet.

[TheVolskinator]

@ Fish, your math is wrong. For the most part as far as I know, veterancy like Accuracy that's multiplied stacks.

So, Accuracy [Base] x 1.05 (vet1.)

[That #] x 1.05

and so on (afaik).