Russian tanks

[aBandit]

Russians are the faction i mostly play with... so for me i'm a russian fanboy!

but i realized as i play against people who are experienced and obviously know how to use tanks (when to attack and when to withdraw), i think the IS-2 and IS-3 combo are too strong! when you take BT doctrine. (still worse combined with the SU-76)

because i hate the IS-2 i never use them, i prefer up-gunned T-34's.
(the IS-2 just feel and seem out of proportion)

IS-2 can tackle a tiger and you can build them.... and as Wehr, you can't! so if you have 2 or 3 IS-2's what can stop you....

sorry if its too long!

[cephalos]

so... you don't like IS-2, right?

[aBandit]

i mean its unrealistically hard to counter the IS-2's when i play as Wehr, so yea i don't like IS-2...
Post Merge: October 04, 2011, 05:26:57 PMi think the main problem is that the Russian's can build IS-2's and the Wehr can't build tigers, because they are supposed to be of equal strength right?

So panthers has to be the counter-balance tank to the IS-2's, which is unfair....

[GodlikeDennis]

Panther and IS-2 are of equal value in combat, with the IS-2 having more health, and the Panther being faster. In a slugmatch, it is very even with only a slight advantage to the IS-2 that is negated by good micro on the Panther.

[Chancellor]

IS-2 isn't OP.  The problem is the support it gets compared to the Panther's support.

Tank Hunter PTDRs are not OP versus light vehicles, since they do what they are supposed to do versus those, but they are also able to penetrate the front armor of the Panther at an alarming rate, while the Panzershreck has trouble penetrating the IS-2 from the front.

[aBandit]

Dennis,

not too be bold, i checked and the IS-2 is almost just the same speed as a panther in a straight line, the panther only turns faster, which in my opinion negates the beneficiary... so if you have 3 panthers against 3 IS-2's you have to be only heck of a player to micro manage all those panthers to kill the IS-2's.

[Blackbishop]

Panther has an acceleration of 2.5, max speed of 5.2.

IS-2 has an acceleration of 2, max speed of 5.

Everything else is the same.

[TheVolskinator]

Dennis,

not too be bold, i checked and the IS-2 is almost just the same speed as a panther in a straight line, the panther only turns faster, which in my opinion negates the beneficiary... so if you have 3 panthers against 3 IS-2's you have to be only heck of a player to micro manage all those panthers to kill the IS-2's.

Ooooh he checked corsix. Dennis has a challenge on this one. IMO, the IS-2 and support vs. Panther and support matchup ends up in the soviet's favor. The Dug In ZiS3 is a pain (and IMO better then the pak), PTRD's can open a Panther like a tin can relatively speaking to Pzshrecks vs the IS-2; its just silly.

[Cranialwizard]

Dennis,

not too be bold, i checked and the IS-2 is almost just the same speed as a panther in a straight line, the panther only turns faster, which in my opinion negates the beneficiary... so if you have 3 panthers against 3 IS-2's you have to be only heck of a player to micro manage all those panthers to kill the IS-2's.

Ooooh he checked corsix. Dennis has a challenge on this one. IMO, the IS-2 and support vs. Panther and support matchup ends up in the soviet's favor. The Dug In ZiS3 is a pain (and IMO better then the pak), PTRD's can open a Panther like a tin can relatively speaking to Pzshrecks vs the IS-2; its just silly.

ZIS-3 dug in prevents the gun from turning and unless you have at least a decent degree of micro an average player will lose the gun if it is flanked.

Remember that the IS-2 cost marginally more manpower and fuel (600-110 to 620-135)

Some changes were already made concerning this anyway.

[aBandit]

Wizard,

i should emphasize the word "marginally"...

1st i would like to point to the russian reserves upgrade- which the wehr doesn't have, the 20 manpower cost is negated (the upkeep of units are reduced).

2nd in light of the extra 25 fuel cost, if you have in some way lost control of 2/3 of the map, the russians will obtain more fuel obviously. so if the russians starts pumping IS-2's out the wehr is almost certainly beaten.

unless someone can tell me how to counter this overwhelming force?

[Blackbishop]

That sounds like something we must check, thanks for the heads up.

[Killar]

Can you pls post a replay to show this issue?

I think you are referring to a automatch like 1vs1 game?

There are some changes made for the IS2 already.

But i want to see the replay pls at first.

[Chancellor]

if you have in some way lost control of 2/3 of the map, the russians will obtain more fuel obviously. so if the russians starts pumping IS-2's out the wehr is almost certainly beaten.

unless someone can tell me how to counter this overwhelming force?

You can survive and still win without much map control using T2 Terror Grenspam.  Use PaKs as a manpower tampon to hold off the tanks until the KT comes.


WTF was done with the IS-2?  It was fine, really.  I don't see why everyone is so hellbent on changing what was not broken in the first place.

IS-2 should not be nerfed in any way; its perfect for its price.  PTRD penetration versus Axis frontal tank armor was what needed fixing.

[Blackbishop]

Yauz, do you remember how you used to disacredit anyone who said TH were OP vs axis armour? We cannot give up to anything before try it, specially if its balance related.

But as Killar said, a replay would be really helpful. Otherwise we don't have a clear clue about it.

[Chancellor]

I'm just frustrated to see everyone changing shit that's not broken.  Really 1.510 is a great patch.  Only a few USSR units just needs a few minor adjustments to some stat numbers and its good to go forever.

Screwing around and totally redesigning units just ridiculous.  Its undoing the great work that was made with 1.510.  Sorry if I sound rude, but that's just the way I am.  I'm not afraid to say things exactly the way they are.  I might not be right 100% of the time, but I'm confident I hit at least close to the mark 90% of the time.