The Red Army's support functions are inferior to that of other Allies.

[vikingsteve]

With the exception of the Vehicle oriented doctrine, the Red Army is weak in a 4v4 setting with either Urban Combat or Propaganda War. You'd think Propaganda War would be better, but it's not.

I play against the CPU, and all they have to do is vehicle swarm, and the game is pretty much over because the Tank Hunters are too slow.

Actually, I don't think it would be so bad if the Red Army wasn't so ungodly dependent on Munitions. EVERYTHING costs a TON of munitions. Conscripts aren't good enough to hold down points, they don't get any kind of weapon upgrades unless you play as Urban Combat (for 50 Munitions, which case, why even bother when you can just upgrade a better unit?)

I'm not bad at this game, I know how to win, it's just that the Red Army is so dependent on munitions, coupled with the fact that their infantry are pretty bad until you get Guards, which isn't a fast upgrade either. Not that it should be, but you're basically stuck with crap, and hoping the CPU defends the right spots while you build up your army.

Often times I find myself wanting to produce a ZIS gun, but I see no point because the Axis will simply swarm it, and then they'll die. I could couple them with Tank Hunters, or Strelky/Guards, but that's too much just to defend one point. I could drop an MG nest, but that's 300 manpower and 15 fuel, fuel which I could instead be using on something like an Armory upgrade, or a Tank Hall.

There's no MG squad, the mortar squad is really good though, I definitely like that. Overall I'd say the support side of the Red Army needs to be improved, they're really lacking compared to the other two Allied factions. I see no reason to play as the Red Army unless I just feel like screwing around with the Vehicle doctrine. It sucks, because I really wanted to like the Urban Combat doctrine. I thought a Sniper Ace sounded awesome, but it's so late when you get him, that the only thing I find him good for is artillery. I mean, that late, you're usually fighting vehicles more than infantry, and plus he costs 750, I mean that's way too much for one unit, whether or not he kills every infantry with ease.

I know it seems like rambling, but these are just my thoughts on the doctrines and overall strategy of the Red Army. The only time I ever win, 3v3/4v4 is with the Vehicle doctrine. It's really depressing, it reminds me of back when the British forces were so unbelievably bad that the only option you had was Defense or lose.

I find myself constantly asking myself, "why play as Red Army, other than just because EF features it?"

I'm ready to go back to the Axis after this, there's just no enjoyment in playing as the Red Army unless I'm pigeonholed into using the Vehicle doctrine.

[Pac-Fish]

Any minute now some balancer will come here saying "COMPSTOMPS ARE NOT CONSIDERED IN BALANCE!!!! ARRGHH! PLAY SOME PvP AND TRY SOMETHING NEW!!! BLLAAARGHHH!". 

TH are for light armor and ZIS is for heavy armor so depending on what the comp is doing, go with what makes sense. SU can be a infantry heavy faction and they're not THAT bad U also have light armor which should help.

Although you're a bit right on some points. Sniper ace cost a hefty amount and once an enemy sees it, alll it takes is a recon unit or counter sniper to send a whooping 850 mp down the drain. And it has nice abilites but for the same mp I could get 2 snipers and a O.T.

But seriously speaking(contray to my first statement) 3vs3 or 4vs4 maps can get hectic. And GOW works wonders vs vehicles. Muni upkeep hurts but you could always build OP's or just use more infantry

[vikingsteve]

Hm. My biggest beef is still munitions upkeep. It's crippling.

I know Tank Hunters are for light vehicles, I don't send them after heavy tanks expecting a kill, but I like to use them in conjunction with Guards/Strelky as an assault/defense team. The Axis can roll up with 2 armored cars and laugh at me as it demolishes my tank hunters with ease, since my Guards can only threaten it after I upgrade them. It's just not a good matchup, and it's REALLY EASY for the Axis to use this strategy.

I've always done well with the Vehicle doctrine in long campaigns (1 hour+), but I can't even manage to hit the 45 minute mark with the Propaganda War doctrine. The Urban Combat doctrine is hit or miss, I feel that it starts too slowly. For an infantry based doctrine, it just moves too slowly, infantry doctrines are all about speed, and it lacks the speed necessary to overwhelm. Sure, you have the numbers to overwhelm, but they aren't strong enough early. I find myself doing well until they bring out the armor, even light armor, because they never just send one or two, they swarm with 4 or 5 at a time, and you can't counter that unless you just built tank hunters and 1 or 2 Strelky/Guard, which kind of defeats the purpose of going Urban Combat since it's supposed to be centered around assault infantry, and not support infantry.

If the Strelky or Guards had an anti-tank firearm, as opposed to anti-tank grenades, I would find that to be okay. But with just grenades, it just taxes the munitions upkeep even more.

[cephalos]

Hm. My biggest beef is still munitions upkeep. It's crippling.

I know Tank Hunters are for light vehicles, I don't send them after heavy tanks expecting a kill, but I like to use them in conjunction with Guards/Strelky as an assault/defense team. The Axis can roll up with 2 armored cars and laugh at me as it demolishes my tank hunters with ease, since my Guards can only threaten it after I upgrade them. It's just not a good matchup, and it's REALLY EASY for the Axis to use this strategy.

and you do it wrong. TH are so incredibly effective in close range and grouped in 2-3 squads. after upgrade they can trow AT nades, making a lot of damage. And PTRDs are really effective, believe me. I've lost many tanks to skilled TH assaults.

[vikingsteve]

Hm. My biggest beef is still munitions upkeep. It's crippling.

I know Tank Hunters are for light vehicles, I don't send them after heavy tanks expecting a kill, but I like to use them in conjunction with Guards/Strelky as an assault/defense team. The Axis can roll up with 2 armored cars and laugh at me as it demolishes my tank hunters with ease, since my Guards can only threaten it after I upgrade them. It's just not a good matchup, and it's REALLY EASY for the Axis to use this strategy.

and you do it wrong. TH are so incredibly effective in close range and grouped in 2-3 squads. after upgrade they can trow AT nades, making a lot of damage. And PTRDs are really effective, believe me. I've lost many tanks to skilled TH assaults.

That defeats the purpose of going infantry though. Why should I swarm with TH when I'm an assault doctrine? Sounds like TH are OP then. I don't use grenades often, they're an unnecessary munitions expense. I have other things to reserve munitions for.


And... it just hit me. How do you lose tanks to Tank Hunter squads? You don't escort your tanks?

[Chancellor]

With the exception of the Vehicle oriented doctrine, the Red Army is weak in a 4v4 setting with either Urban Combat or Propaganda War. You'd think Propaganda War would be better, but it's not.

I play against the CPU,

I stopped reading from there.  You just invalidated yourself.  No one bases balance over 4v4s, and certainly not over compstomps.  Play 1.0 if you want to be a noob.

[cephalos]

Hm. My biggest beef is still munitions upkeep. It's crippling.

I know Tank Hunters are for light vehicles, I don't send them after heavy tanks expecting a kill, but I like to use them in conjunction with Guards/Strelky as an assault/defense team. The Axis can roll up with 2 armored cars and laugh at me as it demolishes my tank hunters with ease, since my Guards can only threaten it after I upgrade them. It's just not a good matchup, and it's REALLY EASY for the Axis to use this strategy.

and you do it wrong. TH are so incredibly effective in close range and grouped in 2-3 squads. after upgrade they can trow AT nades, making a lot of damage. And PTRDs are really effective, believe me. I've lost many tanks to skilled TH assaults.

That defeats the purpose of going infantry though. Why should I swarm with TH when I'm an assault doctrine? Sounds like TH are OP then. I don't use grenades often, they're an unnecessary munitions expense. I have other things to reserve munitions for.


And... it just hit me. How do you lose tanks to Tank Hunter squads? You don't escort your tanks?

AT grenades are free to use, mate

And I always escort my tanks. It's the fact that clever players use TH to ambush tanks with AT guns and other stuff coming at flanks. They are really effecive, believe me. Just don't play with AI, AI knows where your units are, so they can avoid them. AI sucks, play against people 

[GodlikeDennis]

Here I was thinking this thread would say something like soviets have no midgame indirect fire support options from their doctrines like US and I had my counter argument ready to stomp you. Instead you come in with crap about 4v4 compstomp balance...

Play against people mate, it's more fun. Trust me, you are NOT good at this game if you just play vs computers.

[Pac-Fish]

How did I know this conversation would end like this ? If armor is a problem use T-70 or Zis AT gun. That should slve some of your problems

With the exception of the Vehicle oriented doctrine, the Red Army is weak in a 4v4 setting with either Urban Combat or Propaganda War. You'd think Propaganda War would be better, but it's not.

I play against the CPU,

I stopped reading from there.  You just invalidated yourself.  No one bases balance over 4v4s, and certainly not over compstomps.  Play 1.0 if you want to be a noob.

.

Cmon, lets not be mean here

[Cranialwizard]

Here I was thinking this thread would say something like soviets have no midgame indirect fire support options from their doctrines like US and I had my counter argument ready to stomp you. Instead you come in with crap about 4v4 compstomp balance...

Play against people mate, it's more fun. Trust me, you are NOT good at this game if you just play vs computers.

With the exception of the Vehicle oriented doctrine, the Red Army is weak in a 4v4 setting with either Urban Combat or Propaganda War. You'd think Propaganda War would be better, but it's not.

I play against the CPU,

I stopped reading from there.  You just invalidated yourself.  No one bases balance over 4v4s, and certainly not over compstomps.  Play 1.0 if you want to be a noob.

This

[Pauly3]

Jees
dont be that mean
i mean do you need like 4 people to tell him that he is wrong?
just close the topic, you could have closed it after fishhunterxs post

[Blackbishop]

Hey, what's wrong with you guys? Like it or not some players prefer to play against AI, no need to be rude and Eastern Front is for them too.

@vikingsteve
Don't worry about it. If players take their time to write something for us, we gladly take time to read it(regardless if it's a complain or a suggestion, if will be applied or not). Now, about the balance concerns not being judged through compstomp point of view, it's correct however, we also want to make more pleasant the moments every player spend in Eastern Front.

We will look at it, but at the moment I cannot say anything, but I do hope the next version will be better for everyone's tastes, no matter if they are compstomper or PvP players.

@cephalos
TH border on OP. They are effective against armoured stuff regardless if supported by something else.