Regarding 1.501 Conscripts

[Chancellor]

Conscripts are now good only in early game and with Molotov upgrade; totally useless in late game.

k guys,  I know a lot of people did not like removing conscript vet because it took away their scaling.  I didn't like the removal either, but it was apparently not up to the balance team, since it was shoved down their throats.  So as a compensation, the balance team gave them a gradually reducing reenforce cost to scale better late game, and also an option of full rifles when you go FTML.  A lot of people still see them as useless late game however, and at first it may appear that way.  I will attempt to explain the mechanics.

COMBAT: "How can my conscripts stand up to vet 3 infantry late game?"
They're actually pretty angry with full rifles and at 8 reenforce per man with no upkeep.  You can get a maximum of 5 conscript squads, and assuming you get full rifles for all the squads, you have 40 guns shooting at something.  If you focus fire with 40 guns, I'm pretty sure you will hit something.  Please continue reading, since reenforce cost ties heavily into combat.

REENFORCE COST / UPKEEP
Now lets compare reenforce cost.  A single grenadier (we can assume he is vet 3) costs 37 reenforce.  A conscript costs 8 reenforce late game.  To win the manpower war a single vet 3  grenadier will have to kill 4 conscripts before getting killed himself.  If you put it in that scenario, 4 conscripts vs a single vet 3 grenadier is actually a very close fight.  Victory will depend on who has better cover / micro, and whether the conscripts have Command Squad global bonuses to help them.  Also please factor in the fact that conscript squads have no upkeep, while Axis squads do have upkeep.

SUPPRESSION AND OTHER FACTORS
You won't just have your conscripts.  You will have the Command Squad and other extra squads, so the conscripts can also serve as a buffer shield.  Also, if you went For the Motherland to access the full rifles, you can activate it to break suppression.  This, along with the CS Charge ability makes MG42 suppression less of an issue.  Also, even though conscripts are frail, they happen to take an extremely long time to suppress if they are sitting in green.

Sure they die like flies to proper blob counters like mortars and artillery, but then all infantry, even Rangers, Falls, Guards, KCH, etc do too.  The trick is to use micro with them.  Finally, as for the 50 munitions cost, it does sound a bit hefty, but this is because the conscript spam was meant to compliment a fast vehicle strategy, and once you do spend 250 munitions for all 5 squads you can actually stand toe to toe with vet 3 infantry (don't forget that Wehr vet or PE weapons also cost resources).  I've personally used this strategy, and I think it is effective if used right, or a disaster if used wrong, which does indicate good balance.

[Pac-Fish]

Although these points are true, this means that players are now forced to make a decison b/w having full rifles and going urban, or chosing the other doctrne they actually want.

And at 3cp it doesnt come fast. You will be at a slight disadvantage(depending on how you use you conscipts) until FTML rolls out.

And if you did chose say BT these conscripts are suppose to support armor right with all their rifles? Well now they cant get all their rifles and this strategy is weakened that much more.

And a vet 3 gren squad will probably have an MG42 or shreck, use nades and cover, and kite you to keep you at long range. Gven these factors, a conscript squad vs a gren squad will probably lose 1vs1, even w/o full vet.

I understand the conscripts were changed due to balance. But they kinda feel extremely fragile now. They're like glass cannons without the firepower .

[Killar]

Actually to implement the full rifles into a doctrine was very brilliant for saving this ability from getting deleted. Giving the full rifles as a global unlock like bars makes consis too strong.

[Mr.ious.Q]

Using Soviet infantries need a skilled combination between classes ( except the snipers). Command squad and Cons in early game is a major thread for the Pios and Volks in the early game but in the mid and late game they start to become meat shields for anti-infantries vehicles.  And true only good microing can save them in mid game. So far, i only use my remaining cons for capping point in mid game, i always use them to capture the strategic points to cut off the fuel of the Axis so that they can't produce heavy vehicles.

[thebomb]

Right now my conscripts spend more time at my HQ being reinforced than actually fighting. They're simply too fragile late-game. Vet (like retreat) is one of those core mechanics that is central to CoH and every unit should have it.

[Chancellor]

Yes, as mentioned, I think most people preferred conscript vet to stay; however it was not the balance team's fault that this was taken away.  As I mentioned this change was shoved down their throats, so they can only compensate by lowering the conscript reenforce costs.

I think there's just a mind trick people fall for when using their conscripts.  They'll see their conscripts dying in hordes and think the situation is a lot worse than it seems, however this is not the case.  In late game if 11 of your Conscripts die for every 2 of their Panzergrenadiers, you may feel discouraged and feel conscripts are too fragile and think a massacre occurred.
However, you should realize you just won the manpower war, as 11 conscripts are cheaper to reenforce than 2 Panzergrenadiers.  I cannot stress this enough.  The conscript initial cost is also cheaper and they have no upkeep.

As for FTML (Full Rifles) being 3 CP, Conscripts don't absolutely need FTML / Full Rifles to function.  They can serve as meat shields for your Guards that do the main damage (Just like Grens do the main damage instead of un-upgraded Volks).  So, if you don't opt for full rifles, perhaps you would not choose to build any more conscripts late game (Just like Wehr usually doesn't choose to build Volks over Grens late game), but they will still be worth to reenforce to serve as meat-shields.

[Killar]

I think there's just a mind trick people fall for when using their conscripts.  They'll see their conscripts dying in hordes and think the situation is a lot worse than it seems, however this is not the case.  In late game if 11 of your Conscripts die for every 2 of their Panzergrenadiers, you may feel discouraged and feel conscripts are too fragile and think a massacre occurred.
However, you should realize you just won the manpower war, as 11 conscripts are cheaper to reenforce than 2 Panzergrenadiers.  I cannot stress this enough.  The conscript initial cost is also cheaper and they have no upkeep.

+1

If you watch it from this point of view, many balance concerns will be gone.

[Pac-Fish]

Its true that Conscript vet really wasn't that important (Vet1 - Recrew weps, Vet2 - full rifles, Vet3 - fighting improved )

But lossing your vet makes you fell like something is missing . Like no matter how hard your conscripts fight they will never get better

[Mr.ious.Q]

True, i really want those conscripts's vet back, they kinda useful in some occasions like the recrewing weapons.

[Blackbishop]

Conscripts were never able to capture heavy weapons and emplacements in the first place .

[Mr.ious.Q]

  Oops i thought he was right. Because when my conscript got to vet 1 i just want to blobing them with other supporting units like strelky and KV-1 to get to vet 2. Sorry i've never tried to used a vet conscript to capture weapons and plus i forgot what ability of vet 1 conscript. But i think it's kinda a good idea maybe you can influence it in the future.

[Pac-Fish]

I always thought vet1 conscripts could recrew weps . What did vet1 do then? I must have read the wrong info somewhere

[Darkjolly]

Also, even though conscripts are frail, they happen to take an extremely long time to suppress if they are sitting in green.

They dont get surpressed, they just drop dead 

[Tankbuster]

Conscripts with full rifles have a psychological impact too. With vet 3 defence of CS they can take a burst or too. Great line infantry. They are particularly effective at drawing fire as there is a greater chance that a conscript will be hit rather than a Sturmovie. For this reason the conscript is a great line infantry unit with the FTML upgrade. Your conscripts sacrifice themselves while your guards/sturmovie retreat without taking losses.

[Desert_Fox]

I wrote that post because in the 2 games that I played, my Conscripts became useless in late game; against vetted Grenadiers, Panzer Grenadiers and lately KCH, I prefer going to fight with RBS and their sexy PPSh41.

If you can't get Veterancy for Conscripts they're too weak for for fight in late game, even against Volksgrenadier.

But anyway I understand your point of view; I can win the resources war (MP in this situation) and going to deploy better infantries like Guards and RBS...right?