Suggestion for Skirmish mode

[pariah]

Ermm... You do realize infantry-only means no vehicles, right Dennis?

[GodlikeDennis]

Jeeps and bikes are necessary, otherwise snipers would be stupidly OP. Bren I threw in there for flavour. Maybe disable the upgun and just use it as a troop carrier. It's not like it's difficult to kill.

[pariah]

I don't think so. If you have the right troops (say, Rangers with Thompsons and their Fire-Up) Snipers shouldn't be too hard to deal with. I really don't like the idea vehicles being in an infantry gametype.

[GodlikeDennis]

Snipers are the counter to rangers, not the other way around. Well microed snipers are EXTREMELY difficult to kill. Entire games revolve around snipers quite often and that's in normal gametypes.

[Tankbuster]

But we are talking about infantry only mode. You could nerf the snipers by reducing rate of fire and health so that they fall in line with other infantry.

[pariah]

Rangers are a great counter to Snipers, man. The Sniper will only kill 1 guy, give his position away, and the other 5 Rangers can Fire-Up and run in with Thompsons. The Sniper will retreat or die.

I'm not sure what changes we would make to the various unit stats and upgrades. I'm sure we could get it well balanced without adding vehicles.

[GodlikeDennis]

I see absolutely no problem with adding bikes and jeeps. Brens are debatable, the other 2 barely count as vehicles.

Snipers are the counter to elite troops. Don't try to say otherwise mate.

[pariah]

I would hardly consider Rangers "elite troops". Officers and Knights Cross Holders are well countered by Snipers. 6 Guys in a squad? No, i don't think so...

The only debatable units are the heavier weapons teams, such as A-T Guns and Nebelwerfers. The weapons themselves are classified as heavy vehicles, but they are also weapons teams, so it's debatable whether they should be included or not. Light vehicles, though? I think they're entirely vehicles, mate.

[Tankbuster]

Weapon teams should be included but as NPCs. Units can call in arty support from them.

[GodlikeDennis]

It takes much longer to snipe and kill a 3 man KCH squad than a Ranger squad. Trust me, snipers are intended to counter rangers.

Bikes and jeeps should definitely be included to counter snipers, or I guarantee you entire games will revolve around sniper spam. As it is, they'll already be extremely popular.

I don't see a reason to include AT guns at all.

Nebels and other arty don't really belong either unless they're available with guards/KCH in the final tier building.

[pariah]

Knights Cross Holder squads takes 6 hits to kill, just like Rangers. So unless there's some accuracy modifier with those units, they should go down at about the same rate, but Rangers can Fire-Up and charge the Sniper, so they should fair better.

I guess including the lightest of the light vehicles couldn't hurt, so long as everybody's fine with it, and there are no other vehicles. You should probably make them doctrinal, though, if there are to be doctrines.

A-T Guns, Nebelwerfers, and any other arty (including Mortars) will come in handy against buildings. I'm not sure what sort of buildings we would use, though. We could make A-T Guns and such doctrinal as well, although they wouldn't get much use, so that's probably not a good idea. I dunno...

[GodlikeDennis]

Hans shoots faster than the boogyman.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

+1 to Dennis. In most cases, you build two Snipers if you want to take that way to take out enemy infantry. If they are well micro'd, you will get 4 kills before the Ranger squad can even fire a bullet at your Snipers. If you don't attack them with a blob, there is no chance to get close to the Snipers and effectively harm them. What's left is the retreat for the Rangers. So just produce a Jeep, it is much faster and can't be destroyed by even a bunch of Sniper shots.
That's why a Jeep/Bike is vital

[GodlikeDennis]

Why stop at 2? I built about 6 vet 3 wehr snipers in a game just today against Killar and Cranial.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

It was just an example for a number to start with. One Sniper won't have a huge impact, whilst 2 or even 6 like you say are far more effective and a pain in the ass for the opponent