Norwegian Bombing/Shooting

[GodlikeDennis]

I'm most worried about copycat killers trying to be "cool" like this guy. Copycats are very common after this sort of thing.

[tigerclawstyle]

Rizz, I hope all the best for your friend's friend. Can't imagine the shock of enjoying a beautiful summers day with friends, to be brutally interrupted by someone who would do something like this.

Yeah copycats would be a major concern anywhere at this point. In his manifesto he spoke about Modern Warfare 2, and how it was a tactical simulation. He considered it to be training. For those of you who haven't played or heard about a certain level in the game, their is a part where you play an undercover CIA agent (formerly a Ranger) who's infiltrated a Russian terrorist group. In the level you have to go through a level based on an airport in Moscow, killing as many civilians as you can.

I'm not saying this inspired him to do this; it seems to me, that he's been planning this for along time, but the fact that media/government officials at the time of MW2 release were worried about such things happening and the fact he mentioned the game in his writing's suggests alot.

Definitely brings the real world and the things we consider to be entertainment into perspective.

[Paciat]

Copycats are very common after this sort of thing.

When there is religion involved. That man was just a crazy man who couldnt get along with other people in the modern world.
How was the manifest called? "1500 pages of what I hate about this world and how much I hate everyone"? - That dosnt sound cool.

I'm not saying this inspired him to do this

Saing that he wouldnt come up with an idea of shoothing at civilians if it wasnt for a certain very popular game is just dumb. Would he try to kill those people in a Carmageddon or Bomberman way if there was no MW2?
The only question that shoud be asked is where from did he get 2 guns?

[GodlikeDennis]

It has nothing to do with religion, just psychology/sociology. People often try to emulate other people's fame (infamy) by copying them. This occurs often in cases of serial killers, suicides, murders, killing sprees and other events.

I agree the MW2 excuse isn't accurate. For me it reminds me of the saying; Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It takes intent to kill all those people, not just doing what you see in a video game or other media. The game is not inherently causing you to go kill people. The way he perceived it did. His perception of it was all down to his subjective view indicating his mental imbalance.

[Dann88]

After a bombing, the media and goverment find many excuses for that crime, the Al Quaeda, the neo-nazi, violent-shooting video games but the main problem is always hided, why he has the guns, why he has the material, how can he lay low on such a long time without being notice by anyone. And one more thing, why Europe abanddon mass excutions, your goverment let they struck fear to their own people, why dont let those psychoes taste the fear. I mean a psycho be excuted and die but what if before they being shoot, they saw 10 like him being shot? And what about 10 other psychoes who is gonna do it, when they saw 10 shithead like him being shot? I bet 9/10 of them will shit themselves and never ever try to be cool like him.

[Rikard Blixt]

@up, Psychos are psychos, they don't think within reason, many of them (from what I've heard, not related to this specific case) also wants to die as the final outcome.

[Dann88]

In rare cases, real psycho dont care about the dead like this one, but on most case they struggle themselves, they will keep wondering did they have to do this and then die? If we can pressure them to DO NOT do that, they will not. There are two point I just want to say, first, Eu goverments dont encourage terrorism (of coures we all dont) but they dont pressure to DO NOT encourage terrorism. If there is a fire, you have to quench it completely not just try to supressed and then... ignore it. And second, there are always a group, not just a psycho did this, he never do it alone. In every case, there are someone, encourage him, supply him in a very long time. You dont become a psycho in 1 day obviously.
PS: May who was dead, let them rest in peace. Everyone will die but everyone must have a equal chance to die peacefully (not include psychoes).

[Tico_1990]

First of all my sympathise and condolences to all who lost family or friends in Norway.
As for this manifest of his, I've read specific parts (mostly about the Netherlands since that's where I live), some of the things he mentions can indeed be argued to be correct observations (I'm not saying the man is right, merely that he is just not some dumb idiot who just wrote something). Planning something like this for nine years shows intelligence (mind you intelligence and being a psychopath are not mutually exclusive). My main concern is the following, he claims to be a member of a pan European organisation working to remove all the Muslims from Europe (by civil war). Would this be true and were something like he did to be repeated (in another country), without being caught and with a successful attempt to blame it on some domestic Muslim group. Then I fear that the civil war they so hope for, can indeed become a reality.

[Seeme]

I just can't believe this happen in Norway.

Muslims are blamed for everything these days. 50% of Americans don't know the difference between a Muslim and a Terrorist....

I am expecting more these reports to come.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

Seeme is right. This is turning into a new kind of world war, Muslims against Christs..

[BurroDiablo]

Maybe in the US, but I don't expect more of this stuff here. These kind of right-wing fundies are few and far between in Europe...

@stavka88 - So you suggest we subjugate an entire cross section of society? This kind of thing causes more problems than it solves... look at Muslims, their alienation and subjugation in the west did nothing but make them more militant. The death penalty rarely has any effect, the US has some of the worst murder rates in the developed world.
Society will never change as long as it keeps going down the same old road, it creates the material conditions in which these problems exist, and no amount executions, harsh punishments, retributions or subjugations will change that.

[tigerclawstyle]

lol, like I said, "I'm not saying this inspired him to do this." I just find it coincidental, that in a source of entertainment he considered it to be a training simulation, their was a level where you go around killing as many civilians as possible (just like he did on Utoya). The way I viewed the particular level, was just a way to continue the story and that's it. But I agree with GodlikeDennis, the way he perceived it, shows his mental imbalance.

In the manifesto he clearly states "I’ve still learned to love it though and especially the multiplayer part is amazing," he adds. "You can more or less completely simulate actual operations."

http://www.pcworld.com/article/236459/did_oslo_terrorist_use_modern_warfare_2_as_training_sim.html

Now most people don't go playing FPS games and afterwards think "I'm special forces now." After playing years and years of COH, doesn't qualify us to try and command an army of some kind. That's all I'm trying to imply. Difference between entertainment and reality.

Like the article says, it's only like 1% of his ramblings. 99% of it was sheer hatred and murderous intent. Back on the topic on hand, I'm glad to see that the number of confirmed casualties has dropped considerably to 76. Also its smart the authorities didn't give him the spotlight and make his hearing public. I imagine the investigation into him and his "organization" will be extensive. He's now claiming their are two more "cells."

Can any of you Northern European guys give me a run down on how the people their view the Muslim immigration issue? I have absolutely nothing against Muslims, just curious to hear about their presence in those countries.

[Crinkle]

i have to say that some of bravery shown by some of the kids is astonishing.

on he news there was the tale of one boy(can't remember the name sorry) who played dead.

45 minutes after he started the killer shot him to check and yet he still stopped himself from moving or crying out and thn lay there for another 2 hours with a bullet in his shoulder. he was eventually found and is recovering now.

Events such as these really display the human determination for life and earn the people involved a lot of respect from me. 

[Rikard Blixt]

Can any of you Northern European guys give me a run down on how the people their view the Muslim immigration issue? I have absolutely nothing against Muslims, just curious to hear about their presence in those countries.

Sweden has one of the highest amount of immigration per capita in the western world. I'm looking at some statistics right now, both 2007 and 2009 we had over 100'000 new immigrants in Sweden, which is slightly above 1% of our current population. With a majority of them coming from Mid-East. I don't have statistics to other years.

Little quote from Wikipedia (which is correct, I remember this being on the news a few years ago)

The Swedish city of Södertälje has alone taken in more Iraqi refugees than the United States and Canada combined.

Södertälje is Sweden's 16th biggest city with a population of 65000~80000 (depending if you look on the Swedish  or English Wiki page, no idea which one to trust most).

Even with these high immigration numbers, Sweden's far-right party (which isn't that far-right comparing to many other European counties) has only been able to gain very small support. Granted it made itself into the the parliament in the 2010 election, with 5.70% of the votes.


I can't say how it is in Norway/Denmark, be cause I have no idea. I do remember a far-right party being moderately popular in one of them.

[tigerclawstyle]

Thanks Rizz. Seems like people from the Middle East are drawn to the Scandinavian countries because of the high living standards, and relatively safe surroundings (no countries where governments that are less stable and aggressive). That stat about the Iraq refugees is eye opening. Northern Europe would be appealing me to if I was born in a third world country.

If anyone needs an update on what happened today, the man who did these sadistic attacks had a non-public hearing. Apparently their will be a big investigation to see if their really are other cells like he claims. He's being isolated in prison, and only person he can see is his lawyer. Maybe the trial starts a year from now