CENSORING the INTERNET!?!

[Tico_1990]

Do civil liberties make it ok to say that Hitler was a good man, that all jews must be killed, and that all muslims are terrorists and should be hunted down and shot? Because that is what unlimited civil liberty gives you.

[pariah]

Hey, if those blind motherfuckers want to think that, that's fine by me. I'm just happy to know that i'm better than them, and they will NEVER get any respect from decent people.

[Paladin88]

... Someone please lock this thread. Its now heading into dangerous waters and may turn into a flame war soon.

Sir requesting the lock!

Lets be diplomatic, if they have a good reason behind doing it its fine by me. If they can prove it'll be a help rather than a hinderance thats fine by me too.

Tico, Civil liberties are rights and freedoms that provide an individual specific rights such as the right to life, freedom from torture, freedom from slavery and forced labour, the right to liberty and security, right to a fair trial, the right to defend one's self, the right to privacy, freedom of conscience, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly and association, and the right to marry and have a family.

What you have suggested is completely not in line with this way of thinking. There are negative and positive ways of thinking and even if its says freedom of expression I think they refer to freedom of expression (as long as it doesn't interfere with another's civil liberties).

Pariah, don't respond to bait like that, seriously. Far from being perfect, it doesn't stop us from doing our best now does it. What you have just said was not very helpful to anyone, it doesn't help those who are twisted and need guidance, nor those working towards a better future, right?

[pariah]

...What bait? We are just discussing, and stating our opinions, man. Nobody is insulting anybody else. There is no reason for this topic to be locked.

[WartyX]

Nothing wrong with lively debate, and I haven't seen any reason to lock yet.

[Tico_1990]

In that case, I'll continue (and yes, I'll keep it civilised ).
Pariah, you are saying that it is ok for them to think this, that, is freedom of thought, I am talking about unlimited freedom of speech.
In my country, we have freedom of speech, so long as it is not specifically and deliberately insulting against groups of people. Our law makes groups like the KKK and the Nazi party illegal (just examples, it applies to way more), which in my opinion, is a good thing because I can't see how allowing those groups is a good thing.

[pariah]

I hate those racist people as well, but what i'm saying is that you're not going to be able to change them. Racists are, by their very nature, short-sighted, and any amount of debate is unlikely to sway their opinions.

So long as you keep to yourself, and don't hurt anybody else, i think it should be legal to think what you will, even if it is totally fucked up.

Think about it - How would you like it if they tried to make you share their views that, for example, Jews aren't real people, and should be exterminated? I wouldn't like it if somebody tried to force that ideology on me, so i'm sure they wouldn't like it if i tried to force mine on them.

[Tico_1990]

True, but again, you are talking about freedom of thought, I am talking about freedom of speech. Freedom of thought gives you the right to say what you want. Freedom of speech gives you the right to say what you want (depending on how limited it is).

[pariah]

Well, yeah, you shouldn't be allowed to say things that offend other people, unless you have good grounds to do so, in my opinion. But drawing the line with something like that is quite impossible...

With this whole censoring of the Internet, it's not about freedom of thought, nor freedom of speech, but rather freedom to do what you want, in your own home! It boggles my mind that something like this could be legal...

[Tico_1990]

Well to use the very reason this law was put into place (which are to block child abuse websites), it is illegal to abuse children, or to make pornographic footage of people under the age of 18 (21 in some countries). Also, according to most countries laws, it is illegal to make, own, or spread child porno
This law, which blocks these kinds of sites, is put in place to prevent the ease of spreading pornographic material which contains children. This in turn makes it less profitable to make this kind of porn. Which in turn should lessen or preferably stop child abuse and child pornography all together.

[pariah]

This isn't a law enacted by the government; This is being done by the corporations.

And as WartyX said:

"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist..."

I don't care if these sites get blocked, because i don't visit them, but you just don't know where it will end...

[Tico_1990]

This isn't a law enacted by the government; This is being done by the corporations.

And as WartyX said:

"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist..."

I don't care if these sites get blocked, because i don't visit them, but you just don't know where it will end...

Would you say the same if your little sister or later in life, your daughter would end up on such a website? Knowing, that such a law would have prevented it, if it were implemented?

[pariah]

Hmm, having no siblings nor kids makes it hard for me to judge, but if they did exist, and wanted to be in a porno, who am i to stop them?

[WartyX]

I think he's referring to if they are still young children. They would have no choice whether they end up on these websites, and sometimes they might not even know what is happening to them is bad so they won't speak up.

[Tico_1990]

Indeed I am wartyx, again, the term child abuse, means abusing children (as in, against their will). I don't know how often you read the papers, but sometimes, babies as young as 3 months are abused. As far as I know, babies of 3 months old don't really have a say in the matter do they?