[1.4] SU-85

[Chancellor]

He basically summed it up. If you can't kill SU-85s with Jagdpanzers then either you have horrible micro, extremely bad luck, or your enemy was GodLikeDennis.

You see the replay of this threard?

This is the balance problem, with jagdpanzer you need good micro, with su 85 no, im not speaking about my skill with the units, if you do well you can kill a IS3 only with amution halftracks and PG with AT granades....

Hamasei is a good player, so I'd take his opinions with a little more respect.  That said, I don't really see how the SU-85 is OP at this point, or how the Jagdpanzer is UP.

I do think StuGs / Gwagens and Jagdpanzers should be able to penetrate the SU-85 from the front (and vice versa) if they can't already, but that's it.

[Cranialwizard]

I have not played with Hamasai so I can not and will not make a judgement about him, simply re-stating that it would take poor micro or some bad luck to lose a Jagpanzer.

Having said this, I reinstate that SU-85s do not seem OP, nor do Jagpanzer's seem UP.

I do think StuGs / Gwagens and Jagdpanzers should be able to penetrate the SU-85 from the front (and vice versa) if they can't already, but that's it.

I believe they can, if not then I believe it is an error, as they should be able to.

[Hamasei]

thx yauz

About the Hp,amour, and AT stats of Su 85 i dont have information to tell the truth

But one thing is clear. it can crush alot of squads because it have alot of speed, well. why this "hability" is realy unbalaced?

Because all alied armys of this game (stikys and buttoned) in coh vanila and EF (molotow) have something with infantry to demange the engine of axi tanks and if you go close you will have big chance to lose the tank.

With PE you must pay 50 for shot to the engine/wreks of 1 tank and why is woorse? because you must take the ATHT alive, is a obvius first target of your opponent if he want to use vehicles, an is too weak, then with axi you cant demange the engines with infantry and stop the crush, otherwise the axi inf is more expensive, is not very balanced if you can crush it very easy.

[GodlikeDennis]

Mass M10s > everything PE have. Problem with PE, not Americans. Crush is a viable tactic. If you don't make use of it you're limiting yourself.

[Chancellor]

Small issue, but can PE flame grenades damage vehicle engines?  As Hamasei says, it really does appear that USSR motolovs can.

[GodlikeDennis]

PE nades can't damage engines unless the vehicle's on really low health. Molotovs have been changed to match in the next version.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Last I checked the SU-85 isn't good against infantry at all. It's armor is lackluster too, a few shreck hits or a couple Pak hits will kill it.
[...]
And FFS a Su-76 can be circled just like a marder... It's armor is pretty light too, if you're having problems you need a flanking lesson

And about the "effective vs. Infantry" thing: I'm quite sure that EVERY soviet tank got a huge splash radius, at least compared to US/Wehr counterparts.

And to be fair - its still easier to circle marders than Su-76. It looks like the Su does not have range firing speed modificators and does not have a wind up/down. And it cannot be destroyed by light infantry smgs.

[RedGuard]

marder is the best tank destroyer in the game

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

marder is the best tank destroyer in the game

Against US maybe. But against soviets its still a liability imo. I have to play more games in 1.4.0.0 but I still think that Marder IIIs without APCR suck against soviet armour. With APCR/Offensive vet they are quite effective, though.

[Desert_Fox]

I have good results against Russian Tanks too!
Use them in couple with a good infantry cover. 

[Paciat]

I have good results against Russian Tanks too!
Use them in couple with a good infantry cover. 

Are tank riders "good infantry cover? (Human shields)

[Desert_Fox]

I have good results against Russian Tanks too!
Use them in couple with a good infantry cover. 

Are tank riders "good infantry cover? (Human shields)

Hahaha, the are a schield for the tank! 

[RedGuard]

marder is the best tank destroyer in the game

Against US maybe. But against soviets its still a liability imo. I have to play more games in 1.4.0.0 but I still think that Marder IIIs without APCR suck against soviet armour. With APCR/Offensive vet they are quite effective, though.

I would  pick marders vs any armor type - even jagpanther.
I've had an IS-3 destroyed by 2 well microed marders and a hotckiss   

[Jeff 'Robotnik' W.]

well it seems like this thread has lived its course and is going too off topic