[1.4.0.0] Sturmmovie

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

hi all
i think the sturmmovies comes to early.
they are like the wehrmacht knightcross but these units comes much later.
in my eyes its not that problem that they have have heavy armor or free tnt. but they comes to early!
i think it makes more sense that these units needs t1 and t2(both upgrades) or t3 and therefore only one t2 upgrade an a t3 upgrade.

what do you think about that?

[Paciat]

Like KnightsCross?
They cost ammo for every squad +the global upgrade and I only find them usefull vs troops with k98 (volks + MG + med bunker strategy).
...and they can hit the field with the same fuel cost as MP44 PGs.

[Chancellor]

The problem is not that they come too early.  They come around the same time as STG44s, as Paciat said, but unlike assault troops like PGs, Storms, KCH, Rangers, Commandos, etc they lack reenforce cost and upkeep to keep them in check (the ammo reenforce cost is a joke), making them a spammable main force, when they're really only supposed to be a support unit (1-2 built).  They're also pretty strong.  1v1, even if they have to charge into close range, one of these squads (even at vet 0) can wipe out a vet2 gren squad.

[GodlikeDennis]

I want to reduce health a little and/or make suppression resistance that of normal infantry. At the moment they're kinda ridiculous. Their upkeep is too low at ~4/min for the squad, compared to enineers for eg. which are a whopping 9. I'm not certain what the reinforce cost actually is but I agree with Yau it's probably too low.

[RedGuard]

spamming free satchels is rather rediculous    easiest option is to add longer cooldown

whats their current upkeep 4? is kinda low. 3 of them is usually good enough for me
since their 4mp a min thats why their so spammable, that and free satchel

but add a muni cost to satchel and I would reduce muni reinforce to 3 instead of 5

otherwise you will need a monster muni income to research train and reinforce them
75muni 25fu for research to begin with
40 muni a squad
say 35 muni for satchel
and then to reinforce them 5 more muni a squad member?! no way muni reinforce would need to be reduced slightly

[GodlikeDennis]

Yeah, 35MU cost for Satchel, increased upkeep, reducing MU reinforce cost, increase MP reinforce cost and changing suppression to normal values should be alright for them.

[IJoe]

Yeah, 35MU cost for Satchel, increased upkeep, reducing MU reinforce cost, increase MP reinforce cost and changing suppression to normal values should be alright for them.

Of all that, I strongly disagree with changing their suppression resistance. As for all the rest, I think, it needs a closer look - too early to make such drastic changes, as proposed. Better step by step, than leaping forward like that.

[Wilson]

Could you deal with the satchels by making it a global cooldown, if you wanted to leave it as as free ability to fit with Soviet design?

Personally I wouldn't mind if it had a munition cost, but maybe the devs want to stick closer to the 'no munition costing abilities' idea.

I'm not sure if you can have global cooldowns on unit abilities, mind you.

[IJoe]

^^ You can. Remember sharpshooters' artillery?

[Paciat]

I hate the idea of paying for Sturmovie Satchels. Satchels are only usefull vs buildings/emplacements and you still pay ammo to get the upgrade, you pay ammo for every squad, you pay ammo to reinforce them. Thats the SU design (free abilities) please dont change it if you dont have to.

Id rather see normal SU engiees with Demolitions (with ammo cost) instead of Satchels.

[IJoe]

...Id rather see normal SU engiees with Demolitions.., instead of Satchels.

I think, that would be a very good change. If, after sturmovye upgrade, regular engineers would get demo charges instead of these satchels, that would be just great. As a pay-off - global timer and longer cool-down.

[Wilson]

^^ You can. Remember sharpshooters' artillery?

Haha! Of course, you're right. I thought it might have been done somewhere before, but wasn't sure where

EDIT: Apologies about the double post, the site has been a bit slow and I had some trouble making the post. Didn't realize it caused a double post though.

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

Thats the SU design (free abilities) please dont change it if you dont have to.

Id rather see normal SU engiees with Demolitions (with ammo cost) instead of Satchels.

but the free use of abilities are still a problem and i think it can not ever go well.
the problem is that the cool downs are not much higher then the abilities of the other fractions but they are for free and that makes it unbalanced.

and the devs changes so much from the original design (you know 1.0 IL-2, GoW etc. were all free and now? it costs all mun and its good and it works!) so i think it would also work to change to mun cost of abilities. only the mortar strike of sniper and command squads are ok in my eyes.

and plz dont come and tell me but the soviets need to upgrade first for sturmmovies... all other armys also need to research an upgrade for special abilities (us grenades, stickys and bars) and i must say normaly i have no real munition problem with soviets to upgrade my units

[GodlikeDennis]

I agree that no munitions cost will perpetually be a balance pain for Soviets.

The global satchel charge use isn't a bad idea. Though I personally think the munitions cost is a better balancing tool.

[RedGuard]

I still think simply increasing satchel cooldown is the easiest way to go about it
global demo is a good idea too

and I'm open to any suggestions