[1.4.0.0] Soviet Heavy Mortar post-upgrade

[Raelity]

Does the Soviet Heavy Mortar after the upgrade get an accuracy penalty while free firing? I played 1 vs 1 game against AI and set the mortar up for about 10 minutes in the center of the map, it was firing almost continously at the large groups of PE infantry and halftracks as they attacked (I didn't use the barrage abillity) and in that entire time it didn't get any kills and most of its shots were too inaccurate to even damage the enemy squads, even when they were standing still or capping.

I understand that because of the power of its arty shells it can't be as accurate as a normal mortar, but even so it does seem a waste of an upgrade when I'm sure a normal mortar would have been racking up the kills. So was I using it wrong (for example I needed to use barrage or it was meant to be used on bunkers and buildings) or is there a problem with the accuracy? Anyone else notice this?

[RedGuard]

No, I dont believe it gets any kind of accuracy mod

But I've noticed that too, once you upgrade to the heavy mortar you really need 2-3 of them, otherwise you're not going to be hitting anything. so innacurate

I cant explain it, its odd.

[neosdark]

Is there any difference in the trajectory of an artillery round and a mortar round in this game? That might be the cause, because of how the game sees it as an artillery shell and not a mortar shell so there is a different flight of the round.

Although if i recall correctly it was always kinda like this so your best bet is to deploy a couple of mortar teams regardless upgraded or not, so they can do more damage together.

[GodlikeDennis]

Yeah the mortar is really inaccurate when upgraded. However, it gains massive range and the arty size shells to make up for the greater scatter. It becomes much less useful against moving blobs but much better against bunkers, paks, MG teams and other defensive positions. Unless you need it to take out an enemy mortar because it probably won't hit.

[IJoe]

Yeah the mortar is really inaccurate when upgraded. However, it gains massive range and the arty size shells to make up for the greater scatter. It becomes much less useful against moving blobs but much better against bunkers, paks, MG teams and other defensive positions. Unless you need it to take out an enemy mortar because it probably won't hit.

With all the income you spend on it, I say, it sucks hard. Arty shells need to be tied to vet, not to the upgrade. Upgrade should bring range and accuracy. That would be fair, IMO. ATM it's just a waste.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

The mortar is ok like it is now but I would still say that they should have the same range as the german mortar so that I can at least reach it.

[Otto Halfhand]

Yeah the mortar is really inaccurate when upgraded. However, it gains massive range and the arty size shells to make up for the greater scatter. It becomes much less useful against moving blobs but much better against bunkers, paks, MG teams and other defensive positions. Unless you need it to take out an enemy mortar because it probably won't hit.

I have observed that upgraded 120mm mortars seem to vet faster when used with a ground attack rather than a barrage.

Is there any difference in the trajectory of an artillery round and a mortar round in this game? That might be the cause, because of how the game sees it as an artillery shell and not a mortar shell so there is a different flight of the round.

My observation of smoke trails from the 120mm's supports your  theory that an artillery type low parabolic trajectory is being used rather than a high arc parabolic trajectory typical of mortars. Coupled with mortar scatter in a barrage this could well result in decreased accuracy.

[GodlikeDennis]

That's not exactly empirical evidence.

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

Anyway mortars are good as they are now because the accuracy is really bad .

[SnappingTurtle]

Is it my imagination or do upgraded mortar shells take a lot more time to impact?

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

No but the barrage ability takes longer. The mortar team loads the rounds much longer than a normal mortar I mean this are "heavy" rounds.

[Otto Halfhand]

@GodlikeDennis: Is this for barrage fire?

Yeah the mortar is really inaccurate when upgraded. However, it gains massive range and the arty size shells to make up for the greater scatter.

That's not exactly empirical evidence.

When I set up a Heavy mortar team I use several observed ranging shots on choke points. Depending on where the craters appear I choose  a ground fire target. This is empirical. My observation of faster vet is than based on the unobserved free fire at the last selected ground fire point. (Not empirical).

[GodlikeDennis]

Exactly, your observation of gaining vet faster is not empirical and is completely wrong.

[Otto Halfhand]

Yeah the mortar is really inaccurate when upgraded. However, it gains massive range and the arty size shells to make up for the greater scatter. It becomes much less useful against moving blobs but much better against bunkers, paks, MG teams and other defensive positions. Unless you need it to take out an enemy mortar because it probably won't hit.

I am not trying to start a pissing contest here, nor is this meant as a personal attack. Neither the shell size, 120mm nor the range should change with the upgrade. A mortar is a mortar. The rate of fire should increase wether in barrage or ground attack, (particularly as the crew size increases to 4 or 5). This will increase the scatter in barrage and to some extent in ground attack due to heating-up of the barrel. Aimed fire (ground attack) should improve accuracy for even a 3 man crew, if they are ballistics experts or veterans. Increased damage results from more shells put into the air.

Is there any difference in the trajectory of an artillery round and a mortar round in this game? That might be the cause, because of how the game sees it as an artillery shell and not a mortar shell so there is a different flight of the round.

It appears this may be so which would increase the scatter and decrease the accuracy of mortar rounds. It could also decrease the received damage dependent on how sophisticated the vCoH modeling engine is. An inappropriate trajectory model would also increase time in flight and time to impact whether against stationary or moving targets.

I'm sorry if this is too abstract for some gamers/balancers. It is clear that the 120mm mortar is not working satisfactorily. BTW I spent over 22 years in design, (including 81mm mortars)! It usually takes at least three tries to get a good design. There is hope, we are at two and counting.

[GodlikeDennis]

Realism argument does not compute...

From a strictly balance point of view, are you saying you would prefer if the upgraded mortar only effected the firing speed and accuracy? It's done the way it is for balance sake. Having arty size mortar shells early in the game is OP. If you want these you have to get the armoury upgrade which delays it to a more reasonable time.