[1.4.0.0] ZIS 3

[Hamasei]

I see 2 important things to be balanced with this new "defensive" unit:


• 1
The fire range:

Is incredibly high O.O with this only 280/15 cost in 1v1 machs you can detroy a enemy base only with 1 squad looking and this weapon shooting from the midde of the map, i think this unit is little overpowered at this point.


• 2
Acuracy vs inf, other AT guns and snipers:

According to the new coh vanila pach, all AT guns have 0.1 and 0.2 acuracy vs infantry, AT guns and snipers, including the brit 17 punder gun. this AT gun have incredible acuracy vs inf, other AT guns and snipers. little unfair please fix this to be fair with the new 2.602 changes from coh vanila armies.

Also other thing is the cost, lets see the balance: Wer pak cost: 290 zis 3 280/15 without base buildings Axi flak 88 cost: 400/75 Zis 3 280/15 mmmmmmmmmmmhmmmhmmh i think the cost is isnt balanced because the price is like Brit 17 punder but the Brit 17 punder price is because Brit army doesnt have another AT gun, Brit players need a cheap price to AT guns because they cant move it. But USSR have another AT gun is not fainaly fair with the other armies.

[RedGuard]

the teams discussed this in the dev balance forums, we haven't found any balance issues here as of yet.

you wont see the zis3 used in top tier competitive matches, this should speak volumes to the community about its effectiveness.

The only place I see this emplacement really being of any use is guarding a bridge

[Hamasei]

the teams discussed this in the dev balance forums, we haven't found any balance issues here as of yet.

you wont see the zis3 used in top tier competitive matches, this should speak volumes to the community about its effectiveness.

The only place I see this emplacement really being of any use is guarding a bridge

Sorri but i only want good balance. IF you only see this unit in a bridge is your problem, is an defensive unit and like any other defensive units can be buildable in all map. is a Good defensive weapon vs long range weapons like nashroom but Balance is needeed in all units of the game to convert this mod in a competitive mod as fair as posible.

You are balancer and you dont want to balance all units better as posible? i think is very easy to balance this unit:

Low the range to be like the brit 17 punder or something like that.

Set the Acuracy stats like other AT guns.

The only " dificult " discussion in my opinion is the cost of the unit.
 

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

It's unbalanced... It has a greater range than a 17 pounder... it costs less than a 17 pounder and it's smaller than a 17 pounder...

I mean for 280/15 you can build a bofors as a brits. I would at least recommend to set the fuel cost to 25 and lower the range.

[RedGuard]

the teams discussed this in the dev balance forums, we haven't found any balance issues here as of yet.

you wont see the zis3 used in top tier competitive matches, this should speak volumes to the community about its effectiveness.

The only place I see this emplacement really being of any use is guarding a bridge

Sorri but i only want good balance. IF you only see this unit in a bridge is your problem, is an defensive unit and like any other defensive units can be buildable in all map. is a Good defensive weapon vs long range weapons like nashroom but Balance is needeed in all units of the game to convert this mod in a competitive mod as fair as posible.

You are balancer and you dont want to balance all units better as posible? i think is very easy to balance this unit:

Low the range to be like the brit 17 punder or something like that.

Set the Acuracy stats like other AT guns.

The only " dificult " discussion in my opinion is the cost of the unit.

ill repeat myself again, in this thread and probably your other 900 frantic new nerf SU threads. the balance team discussed this already our first impressions is theres no balance issue here

its a doctrinal emplacement
if its going to be changed zerstorer will most likely have to agree with you, and his last comment on this was rather definitive

[Zerstörer]

To be fair, last I checked I had requested a fuel cost of about 45 and about 360mp...so, don't drag me into this lol.

In either case, any changes made in the future won't go through myself

[RedGuard]

so it has been written!

[GodlikeDennis]

ZiS-3 is a difficult thing to use at the moment. It'll take a little time for it to work itself into strats since there's nothing else like it in the Russian faction. Also, it's not an AT gun like a flak/Pak etc., it's an all purpose field gun. It's intended to be good against infantry but has rather low penetration against heavier tanks like panthers to compensate. It's also not that healthy - shreks will tear through it. Its cost is probably slightly too low at the moment.

[Desert_Fox]

It's unbalanced... It has a greater range than a 17 pounder... it costs less than a 17 pounder and it's smaller than a 17 pounder...

I mean for 280/15 you can build a bofors as a brits. I would at least recommend to set the fuel cost to 25 and lower the range.

Agree, I can't say nothing about the cost but the fire range it's too high.

[RedGuard]

it should get a price increase, and in the meantime we're awaiting more feedback for a stat tweak if its needed

it's not an AT gun (its) like a flak/Pak

+1 dennis
and that is the key point to understanding the zis3, folks

[Hamasei]

it should get a price increase, and in the meantime we're awaiting more feedback for a stat tweak if its needed

it's not an AT gun (its) like a flak/Pak

+1 dennis
and that is the key point to understanding the zis3, folks

yes, is the key but with 2.602 the key doenst open the same way:

    88mm Flak 36

    Accuracy vs Infantry reduced from 0.5x to 0.15x
    Accuracy vs Snipers reduced from 0.25x to 0.05x
    Targeting priority vs Snipers reduced from 10 to 5

BALANCE PLEASE!

[Jeff 'Robotnik' W.]

the 88 is meant to be a pure AT weapon, the ZIS 3 is a crappy AT gun and anti infantry gun in one

[Chancellor]

It has around the same range as a Flak88 and comes much earlier.  When Snugz was still around he requested a range decrease during the beta.  We get attacked for being fanboys by Zerst, nothing was done, while people like Red Guard obviously had much more influence.

[GodlikeDennis]

Cost will probably increase to around 340MP 25FU next patch. Thoughts?

[Blackbishop]

Perhaps I overlooked the real cost of the ZiS-3. For now will be set as 360MP 45FU.