[1.4.0.0] SU-122: Balance Concern

[Cranialwizard]

I have a serious balance concern for the SU-122.

For the first part and the most, I LOVE this tank! I would never go back to a KV-2, even if the KV-2 has more armor, this is much faster, can deal a heavy dose, fires quicker, etc. (It's also a bit inaccurate, fired at an enemy HQ only to see the shell fly to the far right and hit the Wehr Quarters.)

But...

The horrific truth is that not only does it terminate buildings with ease, but it also does EXTREMELY heavy damage to lighter vehicles and tanks like the StuG, StuH 42, even Ostwinds and Panzers take pretty big hits from these guys.

This wouldn't be so much of a problem late game but this beauty comes in at 5 CPs.

I'm not so sure if it should be ripping armor apart like it is. If it should, then I think it's armor should be reduced, as it took about 10 StuG shots to get it to critical condition, which I just repaired anyway... If it shouldn't, then obviously lower it's damage VS tanks.

Just a concern.

[IJoe]

I thought it's just a faster and lighter armored KV-2 (the gun is pretty much the same).
As for it's armor, I don't think it's that tough - it almost died DRIVING BY 2-3 infantry squads and some 2-3 pumas. I say, that's a lot lighter than KV-2. It's just that stug is AI - it's not supposed to kill armor.

[Cranialwizard]

But say an panzer IV? It does pretty good damage VS that, and if you play your cards right you might even kill it.

I see what you're saying, but I think it's main cannon may be too powerful. Even on the small "1-9" scales in game, it's rated a 9 for AT, and (IIRC) a 6 for anti-building.

[RedGuard]

I think its great, su122 would maul a p4 neway 

its a 600mp call-in, its not very survivable(hetzer better armored), and its armed with a 122mm gun - and its a part of the least used SU doctrine thats overshaodowed and underused by other 2 superior doctrines

[IJoe]

Pz4 would most certainly demolish it (even two of these at a time) easily, unless it (Pz) is commanded by some "re-e-a-alllly slo-o-ow" dude. 

[Wilson]

But say an panzer IV? It does pretty good damage VS that, and if you play your cards right you might even kill it.

I see what you're saying, but I think it's main cannon may be too powerful. Even on the small "1-9" scales in game, it's rated a 9 for AT, and (IIRC) a 6 for anti-building.

Just so you know, those 1-9 scales are set by devs and aren't automatically linked to the actual stats of the unit, so they aren't much good for balance discussions, because there are a ton of different stats which have subtle effects on battle outcomes.

Put it another way, both a sniper and a Knights Cross unit might have high anti-infantry ratings on the 1-9 scale, but it doesn't tell you about how differently the two units work, and wouldn't be useful in a balance discussion about them.

[Raider217]

The 1-9 scales in EF are incorrect anyway the KV-1 and KV-85 have the same ratings which aint right.

I tried the 122 after seeing this and tbh I agree with cranial, if you get two of these out no infantry will survive, their speed and rate of fire overshadows any negative the armour nerf gives to them.

Also Nashorn is great but seems to have no hard cap , KV series is worthy alternative to T-34, oh and the Daimler armoured car is just bad, lost it instantly to a pioneer squad somehow... I mean really whats the point of giving it the littlejohn adapter if it cant even get close enough to a Puma or even Motorbike to use it?

[RedGuard]

kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

[Cranialwizard]

I know those scales arn't worth anything but I was just using them as an example.

I really think there should be a reduction for this. They are cheaper and easier to spam and it takes a couple shots to kill a panzer IV: I fear what someone can do with 3 of these well micro'd at a time.

KV-2 is good, but I think for one it's main cannon seems incredibly weak compared to the SU-122. It can't tear tanks apart like the SU-122. While it's also a mammoth, it's slow as F*ck, so if you need it ASAP then you won't get it ASAP, you'll get it where it needed to be 3 minutes AFTER you needed it.

[Dot.Shadow]

The SU-122 is absolutely fantastic, but I don't see how it will escape the nerf hammer eventually. I actually managed to decrew two AT guns at the same time with it. Sure it was a blob, but the only thing stopping that beast is another tank.

The KV-2 sucks though. I never use that thing. It's accuracy is a joke, and it's massive damage doesn't make up for it in any way.

[Chancellor]

kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

You are wrong.  *Slams gravel*

[pariah]

It's just that stug is AI - it's not supposed to kill armor.

You mean StuH42, right? That's anti-infantry, whilst StuGIV is anti-armor.

[RedGuard]

I actually managed to decrew two AT guns at the same time with it.

do you have a replay?

kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

You are wrong.  *Slams gravel*

about what?

[Cranialwizard]

I actually managed to decrew two AT guns at the same time with it.

do you have a replay?

kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

You are wrong.  *Slams gravel*

about what?

The SU-122 defiantly seems more powerful than the KV-2. It's also slightly more accurate, faster too. The only thing you LOSE from the KV-2 is it's armor. Why WOULDN'T you use the SU-122 in it's place? Cheaper, Faster, Stronger, better at killing tanks...

[Desert_Fox]

Cheaper, faster, stronger...and bugged. 

When it takes a shell from an enemy tank, someone of the players in the gaeme crash.

Tried today with Dennis and Killar.