Idea/Concept: Polish Faction

[ShasOFish]

I know that this has almost certainly been covered before, in a whole variety of forms, and I honestly don't know enough about the mechanics of the game to really say "Oh this would work exactly this way," but I figured I would throw up some ideas, and see where things landed... hopefully somewhere near the bullseye.

Option 1: Reward Based
Basically, Polish units would be a reward army, not unlike the Royal Marines that we currently play with.  However, they would be made an option for Allied or German forces; this would allow Polish forces to be used against German and Soviet units in skirmishes, giving some element of realism (since they actively fought both during their Defensive War).

Unfortunately, this runs into the drawback of doctrines... one could potentially remove their ability to earn experience, thus eliminating all but the most basic ones (and just using an alternative for those), or even expanding the reward to redo doctrines for them (and keep both forces in line with each other in terms of what they have access to).  'Course, if one does that, one might just as well use Option 2.

Option 2: Separate Polish Army, on Allies and Axis
This would probably take more work, but you'd have the advantage of a clean slate from the start.  Problem is, you'd need more work and have to start with essentially a clean slate.

Now for some ideas:

Cavalry
This would be done much in the same way as the Panzer Elite deploy Panthers; an off-map start, consisting of two units: horses (a multi-model vehicle unit, led by a permanently mounted soldier, in the same manner as the SAS Jeeps, limited to carrying specific infantry, like the current Tank Guard.  Would have to be extremely fragile, but potentially could cloak, like the Luftwaffe Kettenkrad), and the riders, who could (potentially) fight with small arms from the horses.  Giving them melee weapons would be a little silly (not to mention have no current basis), but maybe giving the horses Tank Shock might fill in enough of a gap to 'work.'  Perhaps even the overrun ability you see with tanks right now to represent a charge?  Probably not. 

Dismounted, they could get a Wz. 35 rifle (just use the PTRD from the Soviets, or the Ostseer PzB 39; the latter is a knockoff anyway!), for a little bit of anti-tank punch, and give them an ambush ability to boot (matching recorded instances of the hit-and-run tactics that the units used).  If one wished to turn this into a doctrinal choice, one could extended it to include towed guns (37mm AT and 40mm AA were used), which again, would match the tactics they used in real life.  I guess in many ways this would parallel the British Commandos already in the game, with an extremely lightweight but mobile field element, countered by extreme fragility.

Resistance
Considering that the Polish Underground was a rather important part of the war in Poland, one would have to include these guys (though granted, my opinion is probably a little swayed by my best friend's late grandfather being a resistance fighter).  Since the Russians already have access to Partisans, it would not be terribly hard to port them over; indeed, they could probably function as is.  Since this would be one of the primary tools of this particular doctrine, it might be a good idea to give them (or maybe even a veteran partisan unit... Saboteurs, perhaps?) the commando-style demolitions; this would give them a bit of (capricious) anti-tank punch, as well as the general sort of harassment that they were known for.  Later on, they could potentially get access to the Kubus ( newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubu%C5%9B [nonactive]), which, while not terribly powerful, would have enough armor to survive small arms fire, as well as having a flamethrower and some troop capacity (like the Kangaroo in the case of the latter, and the Flammenwagon for the former).

Another option would be to potentially make production sabatoge an ability, like the airstrike or any number of resource-based powers; for a fee (like 150 munitions), increase random opponents' construction/recruitment/reinforcement times by 25-50%.  Alternatively, for a manpower cost (200, or some slightly larger figure), 'steal' munitions or fuel from the opponent, getting a temporary bonus to their production, and causing the opponent to suffer a penalty.  Another option could be the "Informant," which would have a large line of sight, cloaking, potentially even the ability to ignore cloaking, but without any innate offensive capability, and (extremely) low health... the guy has to watch his own neck, after all.

Another option might be to (as the penultimate unit) add Polish Airborne Infantry (fought in Market Garden); make them small units (4 men, 6 population), armed with Lee-Enfields(like the British Infantry Section), but instead of demo charges give them upgrades (Sniper Enfield, Stens, or PIAT, matching the weapons the real unit usually had access to).  Would allow for a certain level of elite punch (and more enfilade ability), without being too "out there".  This doctrine would definitely be another heelbiter, but in a different style than the Cavalry one.

Third Doctrine
This one I am having trouble with.  Maybe late-war?  Perhaps allow off-map acquisition of Sherman or Cromwell tanks, and similar equipment.  Maybe paratroops go here instead.

Armored Vehicles
This would be the big weakness for the Polish; the beginning of the war saw them with 7TP light tanks and TKS tankettes, with no real replacement until it was moot.  In terms of integrating them, it wouldn't be too challenging, with the former being similar to the Ostseer Panzer II, while the latter would be a Bren carrier without the troop capacity (or just slightly tougher Motorcycle/Jeep).  The former had a very effective gun (It could get through any tank of the period, and could theoretically pierce the sides of a Panzer IV), but had relatively weak armor, while the latter was could potentially be upgraded from a machine gun to a 20mm cannon (75 munitions, maybe?).  Beyond that, armored support would be limited to support weapons (AT guns and light artillery support, with mortar and machine gun teams), which would mean a largely infantry-based endgame.  I guess doctrinal units can fill in some of the gaps, unless people have other ideas.

Basic Infantry
Fairly straight-forward.  6 men units, Wz.29 (Kar98) rifles, functionally American Riflemen.  Keep upgrades simple; frag grenades, BAR, with munition upgrade for grenade launcher.  As boring as it sounds, these were fairly standard equipment, so history says "KIS,S."

Other Ideas
Beyond the units mentioned, I haven't got much of a clue as to what else to add; I see one basic infantry unit (Riflemen, or whatever they would be called), two support weapons (MG and mortar), two big support weapons (AT gun and light artillery), and two tanks (TKS and 7TP).  Filling in the gaps beyond these units would be tricky, and/or up to doctrinal abilities.  Given the limited scope of development that the Polish had in the war (at least for themselves anyway: newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_contribution_to_World_War_II#Technology [nonactive]), there's a fairly limited database to go by, at least in terms of what was entirely Polish controlled.

In the idea stage, late game anti-tank tactics seem to focus primarily around taking advantage of your opponent's misfortunes; using ambushing units to liberate heavier weapons, and turning them against their previous owners.  This is, unfortunately, not the greatest tactic (With the very simple counter of the opponent just not using them!), so perhaps adding in some additional tools may be in order (krak grenades for infantry, or some higher-end guns; maybe even a stolen PaK or two towards the higher end of the tech tree).

Hopefully this will give people some ideas; I am, unfortunately, a terrible programmer, so I wouldn't have a clue on where to even start with attempting this on my own.  If anyone wants to steal things, steal away!  Just buy me a sandwich when your ship comes in.

Have fun, play hard, and good hunting.

[GodlikeDennis]

Unless you want to animate, model and code horses yourself for the devs, this will never happen. Also, a faction that plays both sides wouldn't be appropriate in the game setting.

[ShasOFish]

Unless you want to animate, model and code horses yourself for the devs, this will never happen.

Right.  Probably best to describe things as "It's late, and I'm thinking out loud before I forget again."

[Dzierzan]

Melee, horses...hard or impossible to animate. And weapons and tanks from other races. Seriously not good idea. Poland lost in 1939 and let's stay on this. It would be big partisant fraction, we have partisants in SU. And right now devs are working on ostheer, balance, no time for next fraction, maybe but only maybe in future (i dont think so).

[cephalos]

Hmmm... looks like you have no idea about real polish WWII army at all. 

Cavalry was mostly used to taxi troops over battlefield because in Poland we had bad roads ( especially on east). There was no charging with sabers on enemy tanks. This is a myth, which German propaganda created.

Also "Resistance" as you call this doctrine would be pointless. There was no Polish Army during the occupation in years 1939-1945, so how could possibly partisans join line soliders? It's more then unhistorical, it's just impossible. Also serious and organized resistance in Poland organised in 1942 and became full underground army.

TKS was quite good for it's tankette role, but 7TP was a monster against German tanks, which were lacking of heavy AT power. Armed with 37 mm and armour thick enough 7TP could easilly fight back PzI, II, III, Pz35/38. The only problem were AT guns, like PaK35 and 38.
It just was used in bad conditions or were guarding crossroads, ie...

Also Polsih army was armed with wide variety of weapons. Wz29 ( polish Mauser), Wz30, Tommy Gun, ie.... "Urugwaj" AT rifle was the best AT rifle of WWII.

Melee, horses...hard or impossible to animate. And weapons and tanks from other races. Seriously not good idea. Poland lost in 1939 and let's stay on this. I would be big partisant fraction, we have partisants in SU. And right now devs are working on ostheer, balance, no time for next fraction, maybe but only maybe in future (i dont think so).

TheDzierzanPL got the point. Sounds cool but it would be better to make a new mod then adding devs more work.

Cheers!

[Paciat]

Who needs a Polish fraction if they used British equipment and tactics (in 1944)?
They were a part of a Canadian army in Normandy, they fought alongside Brits in Italy and had an airborne brigade witch was used at the end of Market Garden. Poland (its army) was a part of commonwealth then and there allready is a commonwealth fraction.

[RedGuard]

Everybody would like to see their nation represented in game, but at the end of the day its just not possible currently

so -1 poles

[cephalos]

Everybody would like to see their nation represented in game, but at the end of the day its just not possible currently

so -1 poles

ekhm, ekhm.... not "-1 poles" but "-1 idea of poles in EF" 

[RedGuard]

+1

[Sommarkatze]

I actually liked the idea. I would love to see more factions in EF. Especially smaller countrys However, COH is taking place in 44. So like everbody said. No Polish army no sorry.

And Iam getting tired of people still believing that polish cavalry used horses in battle, its a propaganda myth! (however, it would be pretty neat actually XD)

But hey, dont stop sharing your ideas man ! Always fun to speculate

[Otto Halfhand]

Other Ideas

Have fun, play hard, and good hunting.

I am not sure the Poles could make a viable faction for PvP, but I think a Polish faction/subfaction as a rewards unit could be usefull in campaign scenarios. 

As a Doctrinal choice an espionage/counter-intelligence option similar to the Commonwealths would be appropriate. After all the greatest contribution of the Poles to the war effort was made in the early thirties when they cracked the German Naval code: ENIGMA.

[Aleo0op]

We cant forget about polsih fightin on eastern front in 1944-1945 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Army_(Poland) [nofollow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Army_(Poland) [nofollow]

[Paciat]

We cant forget about polsih fightin on eastern front in 1944-1945 

We can, since there was no seperate command structure. It was a part of the Soviet army. (It was the Soviet army)

[HyperSniper999]

I like the idea, but the devs made the mistake of setting EF in the late war thanks to things like the Stalin Tanks. I don't think cava;ry would work and not to mention it would be stereotypical.

However, it would be interesting to see a Polish resistance faction with makeshift armored cars and nimble, hard-to-supress infantry. But then I guess those would fall under the Partisans.
But just imagine them being a sort of British style faction, with little actual stuff but having very versatile infantry, that can use flamethrowers and AT rifles. It'd be cool, perhaps we can make it a reward for like the Americans.

[megaboy]

im polish, and i know that polish don't have flametrowers and other sh$& but i know that have very nice at weapons wich hitler use...