[1.3.1.0] The recent conscript fix

[IJoe]

The facts are: conscript became stronger than before, and, IMO, it was meant to be that way since the beginning, but was simply bugged.
                     nobody is going to buff panzerfaust, because these are vanilla.

[Zerstörer]

Conscripts are still inferior to the Volks and were just bugged previously. Listen to the advice given and alter your play style to include MP40 volks/flamers.

Faust alone is not a weapon to deal with M8s/T90/70. It never has been. There will be no buffing cause it doesn't need it. There are shrecks and Paks for that. Not to mention all of T3 which you can have at the same time as T70/90 appear

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

I still think conscripts should capture slowlier.

[IJoe]

I still think conscripts should capture slowlier.

So you do...

[Joshua9]

I have found flamers to go down much faster to russians than I experience from americans, or wehrmacht when using american flamers.  that concentrated long range punch those rifles have makes short work of them on the way in, so while I know how fast they will spread like wild-fire through a squad of conscripts(by the way this isn't the case with conscripts in biuldings for some reason-it's not very fast at all) I'm finding it to be an expensive gamble to upgrade with flames. 

sure mp40's change the tide of battle.  By then, I should already be gearing up for t-2, because by then if I have the notion to jump to t-3, I've just blown the game, because the other player will have certainly(with ease) oped a fuel point, and could be possibly on his way to a fast t-90(and most of the time, given the field dynamic, I won't know whether he's done this until too late).  This has been beating me to t-3 every time, because I haven't felt like I've had the luxury to op fuel,  due to the very effective pressure russia can keep up. The problem is after they ramp up(after like the first 3 minutes), they have the harassment/capping prowess that americans use against PE, without the need to hit and run.

 As I've already stated though, I feel my early exchanges with russia are pretty even, we both take about half the map, and with mgs, etc.  I can hold my side, for the most part, though I will be on the defensive, and can barely dream of agressing.  That just seems to be translating into a more effective early middle game for russia.

also, I use bikes, and am surprised that they are as effective as you say against conscripts...chock it off to bad micro, but I lose these a lot, and early, which has everythign to do with the long range fire power of the bulk of the russian army as well as the fact that for some reason the command squad can take like a third of its health in a single shot at mid range.

I do not have this problem with bikes against americans, who thankfully have to get closer before they get really effective.

I do look forward to the su-85 change, and appreciate that you believe the damage of the t-90 should be toned down.  Both of those things will help.

[IJoe]

A lone bike is a dead bike - you need to have at least two of them (three would do better) at a time in one place, which, taking their cost and build time into account, is not much of a burden. Pios are to support them only (repair), and to engage only when the enemy gets suppressed.
Command squad is a pain. I often find myself almost helpless against it. The relieving thing is that there can be only one at a time.  So it's really a situational thing. It can be beaten, but it's always a challenge to me.

[RedGuard]

I already stopped using t-90, except for some rare occasions of pio spam. That signifies, how relatively ineffective the thing has become. Why nerf it further? For what reasons? It's already a whole lot worse than puma.

I never used it to begin with, I've got bigger fish to fry 
not against wehrmacht anyway, just never its a no-no.



So let me get this right SU-100 upgrade is being removed?

is there some plan to buff SU-85 since theres not the option to make it more effective and scale better as the big bad axis tanks hit the field?

[Blackbishop]

SU-85 is already good against tanks even if the upgrade isn't present. IMO the upgrade was redundant. Of course, the stats of the tank will be slightly tweaked to reflect this change, but i don't think will be equal or better than SU-100... but this topic isn't for SU-85/100, right?

[cephalos]

Su-85/100 is going to be changed? Oh my dear.... so what will happen with SU-100? I think we need a new topic for this.

[RedGuard]

No it is not Comrade, but thank you for taking the time to clarify this and deal with me. I had a brain aneurysm after I heard that, thats all

One last thing Im glad the dev team has the foresight to see with removal of su-100 the upgrade stats will need to be tweaked to fill the void of loss of potency of su-100


^^Ceph u want to start it or i will?


OT: heres my build in a standard resource game and im expecting conscripts lots of them fast. Volks>volks>MG>MG>medic bunker>volks
GG
good micro and placement of MG is key, dont just use one MG use two to cover the front and to voer your flank because and smart Soviet will be charging from a few directions GL komeraden

[Blackbishop]

I'm apologize if my post offended you, that wasn't my intention... sometimes i post emoticons too to avoid being too serious and looks like i forgot to put them (it was mealtime so i wrote that rushed XD).

[GodlikeDennis]

conscripts lots of them fast. Volks>volks>MG>MG>medic bunker>volks

This actually reminded me of another bit of advice. An extended T1 is both very possible and very useful against Russians. You don't need to rush for Paks as early, since Soviet vehicles arrive roughly the same time as wehr T3. Unless you desperately need a mortar or halftrack you are actually better off getting 5 or even six T1 units instead of the standard 4. Skirmish phase is still required for MP40s of course, but this works well if you prefer flamers to MP40s.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Though I need some more time to investigate this, but I really think PE vs. Soviet balance is determined by the huge soviet capping advantage in combo with the command squad -

the command squad is basically a vanilla tommie squad with normal movement. To fight a tommie you need 1 PG  + 1 PG with G43. Now brits cant capture fast, so its easy to fight them head-on.

But now soviet: They have a tough command squad AND fast capping conscripts which seem to deal quite high amounts of damage to pgs on close range. Oh, and that obligatory ingenery squad, roaming the remote map areas to cap low ammo/fuel points.

So the PE is forced to get early HT's which results in huge fuel losses (low income to few sectors) -> they loose the tech race.

Just watch the replay. That was like my first game against a PE player, still I easily dominated & dictated all the game.

The pgs do not stand any chance against my 3 conscripts + the command squad. And due to this I got superior map control and a t-90 by the time he got t3.

[BurroDiablo]

He wasn't the best player, duel capping squads under fire, cqc with G43, failing to retreat, some dodgy manoeuvring with the HT. After watching 2v3 (2xPE vs 2xSov 1xBrit) Sublime replay I'm more than convinced that the PE can handle the Soviets no problem when played correctly.

[Chancellor]

Early game, Pgrens used to rape conscripts hard, but now its a close battle, with a moderate advantage tilting towards Soviets.  I think Soviet early game surely got stronger, but as long as their abusive mid game stuff is nerfed hard, I certainly have no qualms about it.  I think its neat that conscripts can pick up their dead comrade's guns now.  Now they can reliably flank MG42s (before this, a half health conscript squad that flanked an MG42 was usually not enough to threaten it), which promotes better play, instead of just waiting on the command squad's charge ability and just blindly mobbing in.