WW2 Warfare Discussion thread

[Pac-Fish]

Hey was the 88 flak cannon ever used as an artillery piece like a M7 Priest or was it simply confided to AT and AA work?

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

During the last months Flak 88 was used in indirect fire combat. A number of 88 gun batteries e.g. bombarded us front lines at the morning of the 16th December 1944

[e-gon]

The 88 was used indirect fire combat, on the eastern fornt early in the war, not just in 1944/45

[Otto Halfhand]

The Flak 88 was used for combat support as fire brigades, I remember reading accounts of the 1940 camaign and in Western Desert so stating. Von Luck in particular used 88s in N.Africa to support the operations of his rcce battalion.

GIs in France called the 88 the Screaming Meemie. The sound of "incoming" was greatly feared by the infantry. Indirect evidence perhaps.

[Pac-Fish]

I think the Nebelwerfers were called Screaming Memies, not the 88 flak gun

[neosdark]

You are quite right Fish, Screaming Memies were Nebelwerfers.

Otto, the 88 Flak sounds almost like an artillery piece (Possibly exactly like one)

[Otto Halfhand]

I believe you are right.  I must have confused the knickname. I believe I got the reference from "The Execution of Private Slovik", although it could have been from The Victors or Slaughterhouse Five. In any case I believe the 88 has a distinctive sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik

[Pac-Fish]

How often would an 88 actually hit a plane? It seem extremely unlikely

[EasyCalic]

You'd have to take into account that the 88 would most likely be firing at masses of airplanes in the first place

[Trooper425]

Well flak guns (like the 88) use ammunition designed to detonate at a certain altitude. These shells were also built like Hi Ex rounds rather than Anti-Tank ones. So a gun battery would range in on a flight of planes (usually big ones that neither changed altitude, nor tried to evade) and set fuses for that altitude. Then they just tried to blanket the sky. If you're looking for a percentage of shells that actually hit an airplane, it would probably be real low. However, just looking at the number of aircraft downed, the numbers are probably higher than you may imagine. If it didn't work well, why was it used so often?

[Pac-Fish]

Well IIRC there was the flakvering quad gun (IDK the technical name, the 38?) and that did AA work and also the 88 was soon changed to AT work.

[Jeff 'Robotnik' W.]

Hey was the 88 flak cannon ever used as an artillery piece like a M7 Priest or was it simply confided to AT and AA work?

while the 88 was able to fire in a howitzer style fashion, the high velocity it shot at meant that it could not hold as much of an explosive charge as , for example, a 25 pounder (which is also 88mm). the lack of incremental charges like a dedicated howitzer had also was a disadvantage compared to a dedicated howitzer when it came to shelling a target.

and it wasnt just the 88 that was used in indirect fire, an interesting fact here is that m10's and m36's were also equipped with indirect sighting equipment which allowed them to be used in indirect fire as well

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

During the battle of Belgrade 1944 german defenders running out of artillery support.
In time of need german commanders ordered anti tank units equipped with the 7,5cm Pak 40
to support troops by indirect "artillery fire". So crews had to jack the gun to "play artillery".

[Otto Halfhand]

Do you'all know if proximity fusing or time delay fuses were used for 88's or the Wolverine or Jackson TDs when firing indirectly.

Regarding  88s, 20mm and 37mm flakvierling two different regimes of fire are used for AA work. 20/37 mm have a range of ~ 1 mile. Their rate of fire is ~ 200-300 rpm They are effective by producing a cone of metal of relatively high density in the same place and time as the enemy aircraft. The 88 was used in large batteries, radio controlled to target zones or arcs of horizen at ~ 25000 ft - 5 miles elevation. They caused damage to aircraft by concussion from HE and secondary shrapnel. A little concussion can cause a lot of loss in lift that can cause all sorts of problems to a bomber flying in tight formation. THe cone of metal concept is frequently cited in articles on MG 34/42 if my exlanation is unclear.

[Pac-Fish]

@Otto. Yeah I recently learned that . Im not trying to be sarcastic. I seriously  watched a show recently about aircraft and AA guns and learned they used 5inch guns on ships in the Pacific that fire like a 88.