WW2 Warfare Discussion thread

[TheVolskinator]

Having read up on it extensively as part of a novel I've been writing for a while and as part of a "why the hell not, I'm bored" mod I recently started tinkering with for CoH, I've read some pretty conflicting accounts about A Company, 2/116/29 ID (2nd Btn, 116th 'Stonewallers', 29th Infantry). Most accounts register the company (which is featured as the one the player controls for the first 2 missions of the original Company of Heroes, oddly enough--which is fairly silly since the CoH developers gave the riflemen in the opening cinema an Armored Division's logo for their assault jackets, but that's me be being a stickler) as sustaining a ~90% casualty rate during D-Day, after it was mashed together with elements of the 2nd Ranger Battalion during the landing. Other reports I've read indicate it was merely part of the 2nd battalion that pushed ahead and established the first command post in occupied europe on (date might be off, typing this late at night) D-Day +5, 6/11/44. Maybe some clarification on this subject from Mr. Halfhand would be due?

Also wondering if it would be considered accurate to follow the 29th through the norman hedgerows and have them assaulting a hill somewhere abouts the location of Hill 400, which was featured in Call of Duty 2, as part of the novel I mentioned. I realised that they link up with advancing Soviet forces after assaulting the Ruhr heartlands and crossing the Elbe river in-tow with the also assaulting 2nd Ranger Battalion, and was wondering if anyone knew if the 13th Guards Rifle Division ended the war anywhere near Mönchengladbach, the last commonly registered area where the 29th ID also ended it's tour on active (non parade ground) duty in Europe.

Any clarification on the 29th's relationship with the 2nd Ranger Battalion would also be appreciated, since the two units seem to fight relatively close to each other during the greater part of the normandy conflict, and even beyond that into the Ruhr and across the Elbe river.

[Otto Halfhand]

All right Volks,
As a suggestion for your novel. Jeff Shaara novelized the Stonewallers during the Civil War in a couple of novels. You could use the family names from that series for your 20th century counterparts in the 116 RCT. The name Walker strikes a chord.

What is your source material for the 2 rgr bttn and the 29/116? Sadly I've lost contact with my main source a guy I used to work with from the 230 Artillery Bn.

I am a bit sketchy on operations of the 29th Division during WWII. (much more Knowledgible of the 28th and 30th Divisions, but they were all 1st Army so lets see). THe 116 was engaged on D-Day as go so graphically described. During Cobra they took part in the Capture of St Lo. After that the 29th raced across Brittany with 8th? corps. BTW could you Identify the ARmor patch 4th or 6th Div? brest was entered around the end of August, 1944. By September 23 the 1st Army was engaged around Aachen and the Hertengen Forrest. meaning they marched through Belgium. My father in law was with the 30th Old Hickory and always said the Belgian Girls were very friendly. THe 30th was at Aachen so the 29th was probably in the flooded Hertengen forrest. THe germans had blown the dams there. To the best of my knowledge the 29th had little involvement during the Bulge. Operations ended around the end of February in Aachen. You have stated the 29th crossed the Elbe so that would be around the 25th of April?

I do not know anything about the 2nd Rangers.

I may get to the Carlisle War College library next month and maybe down to Staunton VA where the 116th is headquartered now. (In a library no less). If I find out anything more I'll post it.

[TheVolskinator]

The names I've already solidified, as well as some high points in the plot. The majority of the names I basically pulled out of my ass, and some of them aren't too well thought out and sound a tad childish, last names like;

Raph
Halloom
Kajser
the O'Shaunessy brothers
Parker
Southgate
Ingham
Peterson.

I am well aware of the 29th's involvement in operation Cobra and their bloody street to street combat to take St. Lo, as well as later being stationed in the Hertengen Forrest around the time of the assault on the Seigfried Line. Yes, to my knowing the 29th crossed the Elbe sometime after the 2nd Rangers made their waterborne assault, though I haven't the foggiest on dates. Many thanks on your feedback. The name suggestions are also great, I'll definately take a look into those.

[Pac-Fish]

I have seen a number of pictures where Soviet infantry will hold their PPSH's by the magazine rather than the front part. Just out of curiosity why did they do this? Was it more accurate? Did the barrel heat up or something? Was it awkward to hold the frontal grip?

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Did the barrel heat up or something? -> jupp.
More accurate and better for your hands xDD

[Pac-Fish]

Can someone explain how the MP44 curved barrel worked? I would imagine the bullet would simply go through the curved part and just keep traveling straight. Was it ever used in real combat?

[neosdark]

It was certainly used, and there was an episode of Mythbusters where they try something similar with a long tube which they continuously curve until they almost make a whole circle. As for how it works, I'm no physics nut but I'm fairly sure centrifugal forces come into play. However they only lasted around 90 shots (even less for some of the angles, they made 60°, 45°, 30° barrels). At some point the metal in the point where they hit became too brittle and they would break.

[Sommarkatze]

I read somewhere that some Elefant tanks were equipped with this as somekind of coaxial Mgs. Especially because the bullet ( of what I heard!) most of the times broke when firing cuz of the curved barrel. And that made it more of a auto shotgun then assault rifle. Good to have if you are being overun by infantry.

However, dont quote me on it because it can ofc be all made up.

[neosdark]

Yea even the StG curved barrel was quite the same. It resulted in a one time shotgun effect.

[GodlikeDennis]

I read somewhere that some Elefant tanks were equipped with this as somekind of coaxial Mgs. Especially because the bullet ( of what I heard!) most of the times broke when firing cuz of the curved barrel. And that made it more of a auto shotgun then assault rifle. Good to have if you are being overun by infantry.

However, dont quote me on it because it can ofc be all made up.

This is what I heard as well. The stress of the bullet being forced away from its normal trajectory meant it shattered into smaller pellets, like a shotgun and was excellent for clearing the area surrounding the tank as russians tried to get close to plant bombs etc.

[Otto Halfhand]

I have seen a number of pictures where Soviet infantry will hold their PPSH's by the magazine rather than the front part. Just out of curiosity why did they do this? Was it more accurate? Did the barrel heat up or something? Was it awkward to hold the frontal grip?

There are several tech reasons possible here: Heat of barrell could come into play but more as it reduced accuracy (it doesn't take much to throw off your aim and doctrine sais you only fire 3-4 round bursts. In this regard barrel chatter would act as a similar distraction. I have talked to several GIs who had this bitch with the M1 carbine too). There is another possibility here as well. The photographer may have posed the picture this way! It is clearly a posed shot. BTW Fish could you send me a copy or upload this pic. It is great. Especially the log cabin deatails.


Curved barrel on MP44: The curved barrel is a special attachment for sighting and shooting around corners, from concealment. The engineering characteristics were/are terrible. The barrels would last between 160 to 300 rounds depend on the barrel bend. Angles of 30 to 90 were issued.  The shotgun effect was not the intent. Shooting around corners was. I have seen pictures of M3 grease guns with similar attachments.

Question: Were any of the MP43/44/STV44 series issued with soft jacketed or lead pistol ammo? - This would make the curved barrel last longer.

Edit: As far as I can tell the soldier front right has a molotov/ vodka bottle in left hand too!

[Dann88]

There was a comic of the Japanese about tanks in WW2, what is its name?

[Otto Halfhand]

Panzertales. It is sadly out of print

[Dann88]

Thanks anyway

[Pac-Fish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGhrsmFrOoI&feature=g-vrec

Just a cool video about weird and funny looking Axis weapons . There is an Allied video too but I have to find it