WW2 Warfare Discussion thread

[cephalos]

1. I guess czech hedgehogs are dug deep in to the ground, making it almost imposible to move, even with great strenght. also tank's weigh counts only IF the hedegehog would be under the tank.

2. Demolitions propably were effective because they were ripping hedgehogs apart without digging it out of the ground.

3. For sure they are! As the most effective and cheaper than AT mines they surely will find out a way to get on the modern battlefields.

[Pac-Fish]

But what special tanks were used to clear Czech hedgehogs? I think bulldozers only work in the game since the hedgehogs are dug in.

Also, how do mine clearing tanks work? For example the Sherman flail. Why doesnt the mine damage or destroy the flail? Or tank rollers(aka Aunt Jemina ^^). Why dont they get a hole in them when a mine explodes under them?

[Vast enemy]

Questions about tank traps:

-How is it the Czech hedgehogs are so effective against tanks? Considering the weight of a tank, why cant it ram into it and push past? Why must it go around?

-Also, how did one get rid of tanks traps besides using demolitions? Was it effective?

-Are they still used today?

For those of you that don't know what Czech hedgehogs are they are the things that American engineers build called tank traps. Particularly on bridges ^^

-the design of the hedgehog mean't that if a tank attempted to drive over it, the tank would either roll over or just get stuck. the hedgehog was also built to some tight specifications, one being that it had to survive a certain amount of force,  (600 kN i believe) the other being the design itself, with cross beams that counteract weight so that the hedgehog could survive 10 times it's weight, as well as being dug deep in the ground.

-i believe the allies would just dig them out or use bulldozers, the hedgehog was not mean't to be dug in very deeply, it was made of 3 L shaped brackets, the L basically anchored the trap into the ground. allowing them to be moved relatively easily but widthstand massive weights.

-Of course, it's cheap, and effective, obviously the design has been improved with stronger allows and made slightly bigger to counteract the size of tanks today, but neverthless they are a cheap and effective soloution to the tank problem other than anti tank mines.

[Pac-Fish]

Another Q. Lets say a battle takes place an a bunch of soldeirs died . WHat happens to their gear? Do they collect it or just leave it there? I wouldn't think its left there or looting would occur and the enemy could take it. But what happens

[Ryxxen]

The gear was often reused like the germans did in russia they used cannons and tanks that they had salvaged and they used russian winter gear becouse their own was just to bad.

[Pac-Fish]

Thanks. LOL your post count went up ^^

[Otto Halfhand]

@Fishhunterx:
Regarding equipment left on the field of battle. One traditional method for evalualting victory in a battle has always been "who remains on the field at the end of the conflict. Recovery of equipment and plundering of the field has always been the perogative of the victor.Indeed the whole concept of plunder was a source of wealth for soldiers from times immemorial. Many "won battles" have been lost when the victorious army stopped to plunder the enemy camp rather than destroy the enemy forces.

@ Vast enemy: Thank you for the description of the Czech Hedgehogs. It should be noted that these Tank traps are only used to delay the enemy, not stop them. When backed up by dug-in Infantry, tank guns and artillery they become most potent. One of the reasons why the triple belts of hedgehogs were seemingly ineffective in the Westwall or Siegfried Line defenses was that the supporting equipment, armaments and communications systems built-in to stop the Allies during the thirties had been relocated to the Atlantic wall. Vegetation had not been cleared around defenses so that fields of fire were severely reduced or no longer extent. German troops assigned to the Westwall found the defenses to be ineffective, (particularly for want of communications equipment). Many German accounts cite that the many bunkers that would have been used in support of the hedgehogs, barbed wire, etc. were only usuable as protection from USA artillery strikes and not as a component of a coordinated defensive system.

[Pac-Fish]

I found 2 videos with these weird German weapons. Can someone (preferably a historian) confirm these were actually used in the field My favorite is the Flying panzerfaust

unusual German WW2 Weapons (Part 1)

Unusual German ww2 weapons (Part 2)

[The_Czar]

That StG 45 was produced in rare numbers, but never saw combat. It was a "counter- development" to the MP 44, produced by Mauser afaik.

I know that the "Volkssturmgewehr" was produced and used, however I am not sure of these particular designs.

Never heard of the Panzerwurfmine, but I looked it up and there is a wikipedia article claiming it was used by Luftwaffe Ground Forces. It seems it's more or less the warhead of the usual Panzerfaust...

As for the second video, especially this Fallschirmjager rifle is totally new for me. But there's already a thread to the Fliegerfaust i think.

[Sommarkatze]

Many of those weapons didnt see action no. Simple because they were prototypes made in few numbers. Well maybe one or another for field testing or some of them for last ditch defensiv arm everybody and defend the fatherland ( volksturm and volkgrenadiers mostly)<3 XD

 My ansvers are NOT to be citated as being true because I havent an proffesor title in history or anything. This is only what I have heard and read on various places on the internet and could be completly wrong about everything. But its always something XD

Panzerwurfmine did see action yes. Remember seing an German training film about differant anti tank weapons and it was in it. But it werent so popular because the whole parachute desing of it made it kind of risky because of winds and such

Kraummlauf I have no idea if it ever saw battles. But I wouldnt be suprised if it did in small numbers. I heard a rumor that stg44 with just those gizmos were on some elephant tanks for close infantry defensiv from inside the tank. Just twisting it around shooting because the bullet would break because of the odd barrel making it like an auto shotgun lol

The mkb42 rifles did see action yes. But not in large numbers.

I am having hard times believing that the Fallschirmjäger bullpup rifle did see action because it was just an prototype. However it looks awesome XD

Volksgewehr 2 and Mg45 I think no. This were made for last defense of Germany but the war was over before they could hit the field.

Walther sturm karbiner 39 I think no. There is only a blue print of it. No actuall picture. PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN

The fliegerfaust IMO did see little action in the battle of berlin in 1945. If it was succseful or anything I dont know. I dont even know if they fired it. They probaly used all weapons they could use. But it did particapte in the battle.
Source of this is an photo from the battles of Berlin and you could see one laying on the ground.
(you see it at 2.04)


The deathray pistol. NO XD

[Pac-Fish]

The deathray pistol. NO XD

Actually the poster of thses vids said that the death ray article was real. Maybe not the weapon but he said there was an article for this. Probably a hoax but I want one

TY for responding though 

[DrRockzo1986]

Never heard of the Panzerwurfmine,

I think this is the AT grenade that the PE use isnt it? At least thats what the Icon looks like

[GodlikeDennis]

I saw a documentary (serious) on the Death Ray system that Japan was developing to defend the Home Islands. They said they'd use intense microwave beams to kill people aboard landing craft that were headed to shore. Apparently it was rejected because it used a ridiculous amount of power but would've been very effective at stopping amphibious landings.

[Tiger 131]

Yeh there was a two part doco on weird weapons a few years ago. One episode for the allies, one for axis.

Apparently the Japanese high command decided pursuing the death ray concept was more feasible than an atomic program and cancelled the latter.

Hahaha irony!

[DrRockzo1986]

I saw an article about some giant dish shaped satellite/space station germany was going to build in space that was going to be used as a means to attack from orbit using the sun (hence the name "Sonnengewher"), it was meant to be an intimidation device to force nations into surrendering but I can see the Nazis using it A LOT.


(sorry for the swastika if anyone gets offended)