Should I still produce Conscripts when I play as USSR? I use Strelky

[irik]

Should I still produce conscripts? I use Strelky as my main form of infantry. I personally like Strelky more. Conscripts aren't really so good in my opinion. They lose to about any enemy unit unless there are so many conscripts, 8 man squad with only 4 armed, and the only good purpose to me of producing one is so they die. Sometimes I use Conscripts, but produce them only when I'm winning or I just want to produce so many, and make them go to the enemy base, and make them try to fight targets they can't even damage.
Should I still produce conscripts? I prefer Strelky.

[IJoe]

The upgrade makes them plenty useful, and it's no too costly (50/15 I think):
1) re-crewing is cheaper, as well as capturing heavy weapons (that's penals, not conscripts)
2) after the fix, that'll be there for the penals eventually, they will be next to god on earth, since
     A) they'll become almost certainly unsuppressible, and
     B) with molotovs they can kill-off 88s, paks, nebelwervers, any other enemy, stupid enough to sit in one place, chase away Hmgs, mortars, even snipers, since there are 8 of them, and he's just 1 guy.
     C) molotovs can also finish-off no-health vehicles, - I've done it a million times.
3) they vet really easily, unlike other infantry.

Drawbacks:
1) the draw-back for penals is they loose the "retreat" ability, so it would require some caution to use them in charges.
2) their mosins do only 7 dmg, same as ingenery, and tank hunters, opposed to 12 dmg that of strelky.

[irik]

what you say is good, but I will probably use Strelky as my main infantry.

[GodlikeDennis]

Basically what IJoe said.

Strelky are better in straight up combat but Penals have molotovs and suppression immunity so have a more tactical use.

[RedGuard]

penal squads are fun to use and very forcious in battle 8 rifles and komissar in big groups do much damage and molotov have many use

however I think strelky more strong reliable for front line attrition fight and you get ppsh they are death squads of the fascist powers. if penal group had retreat I would consider them more in competitive play

 I believe that all soviet infantry are all capapble to bring defeat to the fascists if controlled by a skilled and able commanders, so it depend on your style and own doctrines

while we on the subject who is stronger in a straight shootout strelkys or guards? how much damage do the svt40 do?

[tpcoughlin]

1. My evaluation is that the conscript₁ is a 4R 2HP infantry squad. recruitable for 224mp

2. Tactically: Conscripts should only be deployed at M/L range in a combat support role. Their CE ehancement in green cover is a plus while deployed in CS: role.

3. Strategically the o pop attribute of conscripts give the Soviet faction a unique 5 squad strategic reserve, above the pop cap limits. the cost for this strategic advantage is 1120 mp. It is not clear at this time wether this advantage must be implemented before the T5/Penal₂ upgrade is deployed.

4. Logistically my opinion is that conscripts in active combat operations should not be reinforced above 5 man squad size in which case they function as a lo grade 4R CS infantry squad.
The Conscripts capping rate C>E should be exploited to reclaim capping points lost during deep Ost pentrations,when garrisoned behind the front line this will lessen the impact of Luchs capping.

5. (EFv1.3.1) In planning your Tech Tree Development strategy (IE when should I build T1). T2/T4 is the recommended  TTD path. The choice becomes build T1 or T5,  T1 would be the proper choice if you intend to deploy the Zis ambulance; but I would prioritize T2/CSmr upgrade first. If and when the DevTeam introduces the T3 vehicle combat support HQ this evaluation needs revised.

6. Cost effectiveness evaluation: conscript₁ first cost is 324mp. 4 Engeneri₀ can be deployed for less than the mp cost  of 3 conscript₁.   
Conscript₁<<Engeneri₀ , capping: ability, C₁>E₀.

7 conclusions engeneri clearly should be used as early game combat infantry inlieu of Conscripts. The only justification for deployment of Conscripts would be pop cap or to gain Strategic Reserve advantage.

penals, ...      B) with molotovs they can kill-off 88s, paks, nebelwervers, any  other enemy, stupid enough to sit in one place, chase away Hmgs,  mortars, even snipers, since there are 8 of them, and he's just 1 guy.
     C) molotovs can also finish-off no-health vehicles, - I've done it a million times.

Molotovs are excellent counter to infantry garrisoning buildings too.

IJoe: please review stupid question thread. If you don't think anything  more might be gleaned from it I will close it down. not

[IJoe]

^^ This just shows, how much you (don't) know about the game:
saying that ingenery is a better combat force, than conscripts, is wrong, because:
1) ingenery have lower capping rate,
2) same power with less men - less viable,
3) cost pop.

These two are just of different purpose, and shouldn't really be compared. But having ingenery as your main early-game combat force is, basically, wrong for reasons, mentioned above.

About your thread,- I'm not going to review it, because I find, there's nothing to review. Sorry, but it's worthless (no offense). 

[GodlikeDennis]

What you COMPLETELY FAIL to comprehend in your theoretical analysis is that squads with low numbers of men are easier to completely wipe rather than large squads. Since it is more economical in CoH to keep squads alive this is a huge factor. Also, the psychological prescence of huge numbers of troops is actually an important factor since most CoH engagements are decided as soon as both forces are known and the player who thinks he has inferior forces will withdraw to avoid losses.

Not to mention that conscripts are actually vastly better than ingenery anyway. Clearly you haven't used them enough.

[plongstocking]

I've found conscripts to be great at holding out in buildings (especially early game). I tend to use their fast capping ability in areas of the map where buildings are nearby, so I can jump them inside when a threat appears. The conscripts then become somewhat of a threat themselves.

[irik]

Ok. Conscripts are good at capping and overwhelming. Who says ingenery are better than conscripts? I personally think strelky is better than conscripts.

[IJoe]

Ok. Conscripts are good at capping and overwhelming. Who says ingenery are better than conscripts? I personally think strelky is better than conscripts.

tpcoughlin does.
"Better" and "worse" are very relative categories. Each of 'em fits its place and function.
Considering your initial question: it depends.

[RedGuard]

I'd have to agree and put my trust in conscript over ingenery for early game, saying that i still rush for strelky because i hate getting into conscript blob fights with superior infantry because its really such a huge drain on MP.

the strelky if many and led by the commander squad can handle any infantry threat, aside from a combined arms assault. keep them alive and once they vet they will be hard to challenge

the few conscript squads u have left over for mid to late game use to flank they can still cause chaos amongst the enemys flanks and maybe be that extra push to make enemy retreat