Making DP-28s as useful as PPShs

[cephalos]

unless those 2% are long distance lovers, like me who really hate charging with SMGs forward. That's why I in 90% of my games use DP-28. They deal a bit damage ( more than BARs ?) and added to 5x12dmg Strelky rifles they creat quite deadly wall of bullets.

[neosdark]

Lovely, but you cannot use DPs for offense since obviously you have slower soldiers plus set-up time. I can use the PPSh for both defense and attacks, so yes you are the low percentile.

[Paladin88]

Lovely, but you cannot use DPs for offense since obviously you have slower soldiers plus set-up time. I can use the PPSh for both defense and attacks, so yes you are the low percentile.

Aren't MGs squad support anyway. They are supposed to be used to cover an attack. They become redundant in the face of the PPSh, which is crude but very effective 

[neosdark]

Well yes if you are reling on HMG, but the LMG is supposed to be a mobile AI system. However, the DP-28 pales in comparison to the MG42 or Bren. The reason they are redundant in the face of PPSh is because the PPSh is more efficeint for the same price, plus puts out more bulllets per squad (of PPSh Strelky) than any in game MG, light or heavy.

[Paladin88]

Well yes if you are reling on HMG, but the LMG is supposed to be a mobile AI system. However, the DP-28 pales in comparison to the MG42 or Bren. The reason they are redundant in the face of PPSh is because the PPSh is more efficeint for the same price, plus puts out more bulllets per squad (of PPSh Strelky) than any in game MG, light or heavy.

If thats the case... then it really sucks, I'll stick to PPSh ...

[Sturmovik]

Well ... misunderstanding.
I agree with one thing adding another one PD-28. It's a helpful thing.

I don't, I want some suppressing unit for soviets, no matter will it be a unit, or an ability.

And i want this, but modders compare SU army in the game with GB army & other funny thing 
Looks like they afraid a potencial power of an army of SU complex.
They have dont mind the scale & whow intensive Eastern Battles was.

________________
For Others ... MG is not ONLY defensive weapon ... read please history & tactics ... I am tired for explain that simple war-history thing for you.

I still think to give a Maxim MG (3-4 men) unit for SU.
I can organise a voting for this. But it smell like:
1. Yes will say those, who agree with game ballance & history confirmation.
2. No will say those, who fear with rising power of SU army & review game tactics.

You can say - RKKA have enough power to compensate.
RKKA in game have a few chance with 1-2 examples of tactics in the game, with expirience, it easy to conteraction.
Looks like an anti-USSR war history act.

I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.

Best regard, real Russia fan of the EF mod.

[cephalos]

@Sturmovik - man, you should give a break this "anti-russia/anti-soviet propaganda" whining and start thinking about gameplay and balance.

Can anyone provide stats to all hand-held Machineguns of all factions? To compare their range/dps/penetration, so we can take a look and think? For now we are comparing DP to other mgs without useful knowledge.

[neosdark]

Well ... misunderstanding.
I agree with one thing adding another one PD-28. It's a helpful thing.

I don't, I want some suppressing unit for soviets, no matter will it be a unit, or an ability.

And i want this, but modders compare SU army in the game with GB army & other funny thing 
Looks like they afraid a potencial power of an army of SU complex.
They have dont mind the scale & whow intensive Eastern Battles was.

________________
For Others ... MG is not ONLY defensive weapon ... read please history & tactics ... I am tired for explain that simple war-history thing for you.

I still think to give a Maxim MG (3-4 men) unit for SU.
I can organise a voting for this. But it smell like:
1. Yes will say those, who agree with game ballance & history confirmation.
2. No will say those, who fear with rising power of SU army & review game tactics.

You can say - RKKA have enough power to compensate.
RKKA in game have a few chance with 1-2 examples of tactics in the game, with expirience, it easy to conteraction.
Looks like an anti-USSR war history act.

I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.

Best regard, real Russia fan of the EF mod.

This is for Sturmovik only, so I apologize to all of you who cannot read this, but I'm kinda annoyed by him.

Во-первых, Моддеры очень хорошо понимают, что войну, которую Советские солдаты вели против Фашистов, была не только сложная, но и была нo была других маштаба , чем Американская и Британская. Но это ИГРА, не Историческая Симуляция. Нам нужeн баланс в Игре, а ты несёшь какую-тo чушь про Анти-Советскую пропаганду. У них (РККА) нет Пулемёта, потому что им он НЕ НУЖЕН. Это не копия Американцeв, это новая армия и новые тактики. ВСЁ.

@Cephalos

I do agree, we need stats, http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_MG42_LMG.html for MG42 LMG
http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_Browning_Automatic_Rifle.html for the BAR
http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_Bren_LMG.html for the Bren

Feel free to look up anything else, I don't however know how to get DP stats

[Desert_Fox]

I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.

Here the answer:

Read the second line of my signature.

[neosdark]

I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.

Here the answer:

Read the second line of my signature.

Basically what I wrote in Russian, I just dragged it out to make him fully understand it (hopefully he did)

[Blackbishop]

@Sturmovik
Please drop that "anti-whatever" propaganda crap.

No matter how many people vote for a Maxim MG team, it won't make even a slight difference on the matter; this has been told like a hundred of times:

• Soviets doesn't need a MG Team. You know why and the answer doesn't have to do with patriotic stuff.
• We don't have animations for that unit, don't you think could we at least put an MG Team as doctrinal reinforcement?
• Talking about animations, perhaps you think that weapon could be placed on a tripod, but we won't do it, AFAIK that idea is a No-No.

[cephalos]

Ok, those seem to be the most important stats:
[name]:range, damage, accuracy [ long range/ medium range/ short range], supression[ long range/ medium range/ short range] and reload stats:

MG42: 40, 5, 0.1/ 0.3/ 0.7,1.2 /1 / 0.6 6.5-6
BAR:   35, 7, 0.2/ 0.45/ 0.75,0.002 /0.0035 / 0.0075 3.5-2.5
Bren:  35, 5, 0.175/ 0.35/ 0.65,1.5 /1 / 0.6 5
DP-28: 35, 8, 0.175/0.35/0.65, 0.0005/0.001/0.001 5

DP-28 anyone?

[Desert_Fox]

Ok, those seem to be the most important stats:
[name]:range, damage, accuracy [ long range/ medium range/ short range], supression[ long range/ medium range/ short range] and reload stats:

MG42: 40, 5, 0.1/ 0.3/ 0.7,1.2 /1 / 0.6 6.5-6
BAR:   35, 7, 0.2/ 0.45/ 0.75,0.002 /0.0035 / 0.0075 3.5-2.5
Bren:  35, 5, 0.175/ 0.35/ 0.65,1.5 /1 / 0.6 5
DP-28: 35, 8, 0.175/0.35/0.65, 0.0005/0.001/0.001 5

DP-28 anyone?

Uhm..maybe DP-28 should be similar at Bren?

[IJoe]

@Cephalos
Nice work...
But the color choice makes it really hard to read, and distracts from the point.

Still, nice work!

[cephalos]

thanks blacky 

DP-28 has the biggest damage of all handheld Mgs. And really low supression rate. BAR has this problem solved by adding "supressive fire" ability.
Bren is almost the same as DP-28. I really hate copy-pasting stats...

Looks like the only way to improve effectivness of DP is to:
a) increase supression rate ( 1.0/ 0.8/ 0.4 maybe), so two DP-28 squads will gain possibilty to supress with focused fire
b) add some ability to make DP-28 supress easier ( like BAR).

Addding 3rd DP will not solve the problem. DP is a machine gun, and it's task is to supress and kill enemy infantry. As for now DP has only killing potential.