Soviet Tanks-Axi tanks

[IJoe]

^^ Too bad for you.

[pariah]

That doesn't exactly answer my question...

[IJoe]

Sorry, was away: 600 mp (+100 mp more than called-in ones), 110 fuel, 12 pop
So, yeah, called-in ones are pretty much free in comparison, plus, they just "appear" out of nowhere!

[Hamasei]

Unless Panthers were nerfed in a patch or something, they are very accurate versus infantry, and blow them up real good. How is that not good versus infantry?

Ok in Vcohtov Panthers arent good vs infantry and never will be good vs infantry because balance. I will try it in VEF

I trayed in EF, Panther are the same, shit vs infantry. Please dont use Ilogical Arguments, if you dont understand good the game dont send me to test units!

[GodlikeDennis]

Panthers have 60% accuracy against infantry and virtually no splash damage. Essentially they kill 1 man every 2 shots which isn't very good.

[IJoe]

^^ No one (except paria) here posed, that they're "good" against infantry. They have other strong sides. See Paciat's post, so I won't have to repeat it.

[Cranialwizard]

1000 MP for 2 VS 1200 MP and 240 fuel for 2 as wehrmacht. Considering they also come at once rather than separate, I find that's a pretty good deal.

[Hamasei]

^^ No one (except paria) here posed, that they're "good" against infantry. They have other strong sides. See Paciat's post, so I won't have to repeat it.

sorri but the problem is the diferece acuracy betwen panther an IS2, I think people is very hapy the overIS2 but is unbalanced that its all.

[IJoe]

1000 MP for 2 VS 1200 MP and 240 fuel for 2 as wehrmacht. Considering they also come at once rather than separate, I find that's a pretty good deal.

Do you ever actually read the thread before posting 
Yeah! That's a good deal! Too damn good!! Especially with pop limit raised.

@Hamasei
Aren't you forgetting something? Like cost (including teching up), muni upkeep, low (starting) accuracy (which is important, unless you're fighting at point-blank distance), lower (than panther's, and even AT trucks) range, unavailable non-combat vetting, etc.
Anyway, you started off at saying there should be a limit on these things for no pop cap games' purposes. And now you come down to just saying, it's simply OP? I don't follow, sorry 

Besides that, I'm not happy about IS2:
I'd like to see it stronger (more like tiger, only better), with 1/2 limit, but only along with lowering teching up price for t-34/85

[pariah]

Unless Panthers were nerfed in a patch or something, they are very accurate versus infantry, and blow them up real good. How is that not good versus infantry?

Ok in Vcohtov Panthers arent good vs infantry and never will be good vs infantry because balance. I will try it in VEF

I trayed in EF, Panther are the same, shit vs infantry. Please dont use Ilogical Arguments, if you dont understand good the game dont send me to test units!

What the fuck is your problem, man?  You're the 1 who decided to test it! As i said, it could have changed in a patch. There is nothing illogical about that.

Panthers are a tank-killer. For a tank-killer, they are quite good against infantry. Compare them to, say, the Marder III, which can barely hit any infantry ever, and they are pretty good. I like to use Panthers as general-purpose tanks. When playing as the Wehrmacht, i find no reason to buy a Panzer IV unless i'm low on resources and desperately need more tanks. Panthers aren't as good as Panzer IVs or Tigers vs infantry, but they're still pretty good.

Please, try to test the unit when testing the unit, rather than just look at the 2 in the unit stats.

[GodlikeDennis]

Killing 1 man every 2 shots is not good at all. It's no use comparing them to a marder when they still suck. That's like saying pio MP40s are better than engineer grease guns, therefore they must be good against infantry. Panthers have some use against weapons teams because of their low number and have decent infantry crush with their speed, maneuverability and shape. That is the extent of their AI capability. They are excellent tank "hunters" though because of their speed and ranged penetration. Panthers are a joy to control in tank battles. P4s are vastly better against infantry by firing faster, hitting most of the time and taking out several per shot sometimes. There's also more of them, since they're cheaper.

Back on topic: The IS2 is fine. It has a ton of health and great damage but is a brick on the battlefield. It's like a weak KT. The thing is simply a shell magnet until it dies, while not doing any great amount of damage back against a prepared foe. It has a slow reload and worse accuracy than panthers against infantry but have a 4m blast radius (which only kill infantry with a direct hit and enemy infantry on the outskirts of the blast radius lose ~1/2 health). It is much more of a general heavy tank than the Panther and a little more like a Tiger in role.

Personally I've never really thought IS2s were very scary. Their slow speed just makes them targets. Panthers are much scarier since their speed allows good players to attack anywhere with them and escape from trouble to return.

[pariah]

Don't forget that the Panther has pretty heavy armor. Rifles, of course, can't do anything to it, but infantry anti-tank weapons aren't so good either. In my experience, Panthers are decent anti-infantry tanks. If you want a REAL anti-infantry tank, buy an Ostwind or Stubby.

But i obviously can't say anything about the balance of the Soviet units, so i'll leave this topic now.

[Red_Stinger]

I agree that, even if the panther isnt a AI tank, its quite useful vetted, as they get their MG42.

For the IS-2, I dont really use them, mainly for the reasons GodlikeDennis mentionned: lack of speed, low accuracy and reload speed... They arent really the beast they are supposed to be in my eyes. T34-85 are deadly in comparison.

[Cranialwizard]

If you're looking for a AI tank go with the Ostwind. It's armor is weak but will clean up tank hunters. Panthers are meant to be tank hunters but instead are more well-rounded tanks than anything. It excels at AT but can do decent at AI because of MG42 and MG34 additions with Wehr Vet.

[RedGuard]

another wehr fanboy wanting more buffs for a noob dominated faction

learn to play first then come to balance discussion