Unit Production Choices: Creates Weaknesses

[skycaptain_p40]

I do not know if I am the only one who feels this (I searched and could not find similar posts) but the whole idea of choosing between units at each tier will create problems, and/or limit unit production and tactical choices.
As I have posted in other sections of the forum

I love the units, but this choosing between units will really mess with the way I would play as this faction. 
The choices I would most often make are:

Light Assault
Summary: Enables the production of Marksmen and MG teams. When you active LA, the FlaK 38 and Ofenrohr Truppen are disabled.

Heavy Assault
Summary: Allows to enable the production of Stormpioniers and Troop Halftracks. When you active HA, PaKs 40 and 75mm ISG teams are disabled.

Panzer Assault
Summary: Allows the production of Panthers and StuG IIIs. Disables the production of Marders and Brummbärs.

Those are the ones that would fit my play style, but the major problem being is I would have no AT capabilities until late game. 
Now I know that's mostly my fault because of my choosing, though still feel like that is an issue that should be addressed.

Now I know I might just be ranting, or not know what I'm talking about, but I have been playing CoH for years now, and I have played many mods. Two of my other favorites besides EF are "Back to Basics" and "NHC" Mod.  I simply feel like limiting units like that will hinder the compatibilities of the player, as with my example with the no early AT.  It seems to me that most of those units should always be available and not have to be chosen between, allowing for more tactical choices.
As I said, I might just be wining, and you at EF may have done this for balancing from play testing, but if I have a legitimate argument please respond, and sorry for the long winded post. 

[SublimeSnugz]

The Office- Michael Scott No God No

[skycaptain_p40]

So.......am I just all complaints, wrong, a noob, being dissed, touching a taboo subject, or was I just trolled for no real reason?

[cephalos]

that's the point - those pools are switchable. if you need AT, you switch to second pool. I guess OH units will be really strong, as far I can see. Player will have to pay more to get them, but in fact they are going to be really good in what they are designed for.

[Troynl]

I don't realy see a problem with the fact you must choice between pool's, even if it isn't switchable.
When you take a Light Assault without AT, it isn't smart to take an Heavy Assault PaKs 40
(But it could be a good idear if you play very aggresive, giving the enemy no time to build heavy units)

[skycaptain_p40]

that's the point - those pools are switchable. if you need AT, you switch to second pool. I guess OH units will be really strong, as far I can see. Player will have to pay more to get them, but in fact they are going to be really good in what they are designed for.

Well, I didn't realize that it might be switchable in game, if so, I am much more forgiving of having to choose. I could work with that, as long as all units are available to the player at some point, though switching would be an inconvenience.  However, if one is not able to switch back and forth, then my complaint still stands.

[Blackbishop]

that's the point - those pools are switchable. if you need AT, you switch to second pool. I guess OH units will be really strong, as far I can see. Player will have to pay more to get them, but in fact they are going to be really good in what they are designed for.

Well, I didn't realize that it might be switchable in game, if so, I am much more forgiving of having to choose. I could work with that, as long as all units are available to the player at some point, though switching would be an inconvenience.  However, if one is not able to switch back and forth, then my complaint still stands.

In every Ostheer sneaky peaky is described that you can switch every time you want between pools. And even if it wasn't in that way, you need to deploy AT weapons somehow... if in tier 1 i choose assault, t2 will be defense and so on; if you want to choose more AI instead of AT, that's up to you. Also, it's not like T1/T2 units will be useless in mid/late game.

[GodlikeDennis]

The pools are no different from a PE player choosing to build T3 instead of T4. You still will eventually have access to the other units but not for the moment, this is the teching path you have chosen and you must make the best of the units available to you.

[tpcoughlin]

Hi guys,
The Tech Tree Development/Production issues shouldn't cause a problem for the Ostheer In fact its the other way around.

1. Neutral units ("default units" for preference) are the reason.
2. Production Buildings Sovs=Ost (4 each).
3.The Sovs have two neutral units ingenery and conscript, (I ignore the Com Sqd).
4.Ost has 6 or 7(SK18 HT?)neutral units: HQ: pio; T1: lanser (LSW); T3: PF, Luchs AFV, CS unit; T4: P3j AFV. (Looks like a PE wetdream to me)
5. Any building not engaged in R&D or Switch can produce. Maybe switch cost or recharge could be a problem; but I doubt it.
6. In a crisis you could abort all R&D and pop out 1 INF, 1Recce Tank, and 1 MBT. If you can't make a Kampf Gruppe out of that you should stick to Freecell.
7. I think the SK18 is a neutral unit? If so you get AFV (builder,capper) with regen ability for the cost of 1 upgrade. The Sovs build T1,T2,T4 and get a good Humor Truck with regen ability.
8. Should production actually a problem  the counter is to "Race for the Oilfields" with your 2 neutral unit AFV  cappers. The Sovs don't even have an AC (with or without capping ability). This is a race you can win.

To be fair Pierre there's weakness there! But not for the Ostheer.

Quote from: skycaptain_p40 on March 24, 2011, 10:30:54 AM

Light Assault...Heavy Assault...Panzer Assault...fit my play style, but the major problem being  is I would have no AT capabilities until late game.

The short answer to you question is to come up with counters from among your neutral units.



The long answer:
I would not criticize your play style. Its your game. You are familiar with Rock<Paper<Scissors? See my Signature for EF below. Every unit in the game has a role and an ability. In this role your unit will counter an enemy unit E1's ability and in turn be countered by E2's ability. That is E2's role. In EF there are many role/counters. and even more counters than there are roles. Some times units abilities/roles are equal.
 
VG(4m squad 4R role:infantry) VG=Ingen(4mSqd, 4R role:builder).

Upgrades can change this balance: VGmp5>Igen, VGmp5<Igen rok

P4d<M4=P3n <P4g<T34/76<=P3L<T34/85<=LL M4<ISU2<=P5g

 is the r<p<s shorthand for your play style (T4 -)AFV . I know some people will disagree with my assessment, but let it go, that's not the point here.¹ I would categorize your Tech Tree Development Strategy as a SPAM Strategy IE overpower your opponent with so many units with one role that their more balanced OB is incapable of easily countering it/them. Their Strategic Development Plan will go to Hell, micromanagement issues will result in the loss of critical units, etc. You will have broken their focus and gained the initiative.  If you have mastered the other aspects of the game you will win against all but the most sophisticated players. NUFF SAID!




Footnote
1. In particular M4 doesn't  even appear in EF1.xxx Sov at all. There is a technical nomenclature glitch (playbalance) that hasn't been apparent yet because Players have a aesthetic historical relevance related aversion to deploying LL M4. The EF Community will eventually resolve it, or not. At present the Development Team's energy is focused elsewhere. e.g. EF2.0 Ostheerwhich will be a complete stand alone Mod. When you notice a catfight in the threads chances are its a flaw the Development Team hasn't gotten to yet. Enigma

[Paladin88]

Hi guys,
The Tech Tree Development/Production issues shouldn't cause a problem for the Ostheer In fact its the other way around.

1. Neutral units ("default units" for preference) are the reason.
2. Production Buildings Sovs=Ost (4 each).
3.The Sovs have two neutral units ingenery and conscript, (I ignore the Com Sqd).
4.Ost has 6 or 7(SK18 HT?)neutral units: HQ: pio; T1: lanser (LSW); T3: PF, Luchs AFV, CS unit; T4: P3j AFV. (Looks like a PE wetdream to me)
5. Any building not engaged in R&D or Switch can produce. Maybe switch cost or recharge could be a problem; but I doubt it.
6. In a crisis you could abort all R&D and pop out 1 INF, 1Recce Tank, and 1 MBT. If you can't make a Kampf Gruppe out of that you should stick to Freecell.
7. I think the SK18 is a neutral unit? If so you get AFV (builder,capper) with regen ability for the cost of 1 upgrade. The Sovs build T1,T2,T4 and get a good Humor Truck with regen ability.
8. Should production actually a problem  the counter is to "Race for the Oilfields" with your 2 neutral unit AFV  cappers. The Sovs don't even have an AC (with or without capping ability). This is a race you can win.

To be fair Pierre there's weakness there! But not for the Ostheer.

Quote from: skycaptain_p40 on March 24, 2011, 10:30:54 AM

Light Assault...Heavy Assault...Panzer Assault...fit my play style, but the major problem being  is I would have no AT capabilities until late game.

The short answer to you question is to come up with counters from among your neutral units.



The long answer:
I would not criticize your play style. Its your game. You are familiar with Rock<Paper<Scissors? See my Signature for EF below. Every unit in the game has a role and an ability. In this role your unit will counter an enemy unit E1's ability and in turn be countered by E2's ability. That is E2's role. In EF there are many role/counters. and even more counters than there are roles. Some times units abilities/roles are equal.
 
VG(4m squad 4R role:infantry) VG=Ingen(4mSqd, 4R role:builder).

Upgrades can change this balance: VGmp5>Igen, VGmp5<Igen rok

P4d<M4=P3n <P4g<T34/76<=P3L<T34/85<=LL M4<ISU2<=P5g

 is the r<p<s shorthand for your play style (T4 -)AFV . I know some people will disagree with my assessment, but let it go, that's not the point here.¹ I would categorize your Tech Tree Development Strategy as a SPAM Strategy IE overpower your opponent with so many units with one role that their more balanced OB is incapable of easily countering it/them. Their Strategic Development Plan will go to Hell, micromanagement issues will result in the loss of critical units, etc. You will have broken their focus and gained the initiative.  If you have mastered the other aspects of the game you will win against all but the most sophisticated players. NUFF SAID!




Footnote
1. In particular M4 doesn't  even appear in EF1.xxx Sov at all. There is a technical nomenclature glitch (playbalance) that hasn't been apparent yet because Players have a aesthetic historical relevance related aversion to deploying LL M4. The EF Community will eventually resolve it, or not. At present the Development Team's energy is focused elsewhere. e.g. EF2.0 Ostheerwhich will be a complete stand alone Mod. When you notice a catfight in the threads chances are its a flaw the Development Team hasn't gotten to yet. Enigma

The poor kid's going to die with all that info... lets keep it simple. The "limitation" with the Ostheer is the same in different armies. Let me state it more simply:

In Brits, if you pick RAC (royal artillery corp) you lose out on RC and RE (commandoes and engineers respectively) the important thing is that you got to know what you are doing, you don't pick a path at the start and then say oh its crap ... this army sucks, you've got to compensate! The restrictions state by sky captain is found in all armies, this doesn't mean its a balance issue.

[RedGuard]

dood! the faction isnt even close to completion, I dont understand how you're drawing these conclusions. let alone cry UP

 

If anything all this theoryccraft leads us to the conclusion that the ostheer may have too much, rendering the other axis factions second class.

[GodlikeDennis]

Recommend close thread.