Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?  (Read 19439 times)

Offline Flanker1949

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Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« on: February 19, 2011, 09:56:24 AM »
Hey guys. Firstly I am sorry for my poor English skill as it is my second language.

And please don't get offended, since my English is too bad, sometimes it sound like I am being rude and telling people what to do. Please forgive me if that happend here. I never meant to offend anyone. Those are just merely our subjective opinion, and we just trying to discuss with everyone.

1. From the start of the game, the Soviet can build nothing but conscripts. Since half of them are unarmed, they perform poorly in a fight. And their combat effectiveness against infantry is only 2. I tried to capture a point once and encontered a term of German engineer. And my conscript term was wiped out by the engineer. (the engineers did not have the flamethrower). :-[
And most of them are getting slaughtered by the motor-bikes.

2. It is so expensive to upgrade, by the time I have the Red banner trooper, the German already have motorised machine gun units. And since both upgraded conscripts and the Red banner trooper have no anti-armo capabilities, I only find myself getting slaughtered. Also, the Red Banner trooper also have only 2 point of combat effectiveness against infantry. Aren't they suppose to be different with the consripts?

3. Since the Soviet can not have any armored support, I can only watch German take my land one after one. And since they can have the upper hand by doing so, I would have limited resource. So by the time I built my Tank factory, the German would have various panzer. And the worst part is even after I built the Tank farctory I still can not build Tanks because we have to upgrade it first. We often find ourselves have no resource to do so as Soviet Tanks are expensive.

4. If I somehow hold it out untill I can produce the T-34, I will only find my Tank be surrounded by a number of Panther. And they will Bi**h kick me up and down main street untill they gets bored and decide just charge into my base and destory me.

Since there are so many limitations on the Soviet produce line as we often have to upgrade the building before we can put it in use. It will take a lot of time and extra resources from us and that makes it fatal in the game.

We hope that if the design term agrees, and modify the game a little. Me and my friends who have less English skill have writen down a list of suggestions and hope we can discuss with everybody.

1. The base combat effectiveness of the un-upgraded Red Banner troop set to 3. But reduce the ungrade of PPsh-41 and the DP-42's combat effectiveness by 1. So the ungraded version has no difference. And also give them the RPG-43 and F-1 grenade. So they would not be slaughtered by the armored cars in the earlier of the game.

2. The shock guards as the most elite of the Soviet infantry,  it'll be nice if their number be reduced to 6, to make it look different with the Red Banner troop since no trooper can become a shock guard. ;) It will be easier for people to manage. And 2 of them use SMG plus one of them carry DP-42 for covering fire.

3. In the earlier stage of the game, Soviet troop are running arround with no support. We were hoping that we can free the medical truck so we can produce it before we upgrade the building.
Also, the Soviet is the only faction that does not have armored vehical in the earlier stage of the game to support its infantry. It would be cool if we add motorpool to the Soviet and allow them to build BA-10 and BA-46.

4. The Soviet outpost, the Soviet troopers can resupply themselves there. But there is no one in there and people can garrison it. This did not seem logical. We suggest that the outpost can not be garrisoned, and after you build it, you can see there are 3-4 logistic managers in there, and they can shoot with Mosin-Naggan rifle if enemies approach.

The main issue in the Soviet faction is just too many upgrade we have to do before we can do anything. It cost people a lot of time and resources and that make people who choose the Soviet loss its advantage. So the gap between the earlier stage weapon and later stage weapon are too big. There is almost no middle stage for the Soviet. And while Soviet is heavily rely on the infantry, they have no infantry support structure. Only of you choose the propanganda tactics you can build machine gun nest and trenches. Otherwise your infantry will be exposed out side and open for slaughter.

And the special tactics are weired too. The artilery for example: it says that it will cover a large area, and it indeed cover a large area. It practicaly wiped out my enemy, my aliance and me in one go. And it will charge 5 mins before I can use it again. It'll be good if we just use the normal artilery like the US one.

And we found some bugs too. The Soviet machine gun nest, after the gunner is killed, when you trying to send another guy in there, the nest icon will become a big purple square.

Thank for listening. If anyone thinks that what we said are not true. And what we experienced simply due to we had insufficient experience to play the Soviet faction, we hope you can teach us how to play it in correct way. Thank a lot.

Offline Analpirat

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 11:05:48 AM »
Let me guess, the conscripts were capping while the pioneers were shooting at them,didn't they? Or they were in red cover and the pios in green or whatever.

Anyhow, it just seems you're being severely outplayed (Multiple panthers hen you have 1 T34) and thusly t is hard to take your suggestions for face value.
One thing: The numbers under the unit pictures, they mean nothing. Literally nothing. So there's no balance problem there.
You really need to get a grip of the game first, play the tutorials, watch some replays, play some 1vs 1 automatch and you'll see your problems are not what they seem to be.

Offline Raider217

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 11:10:47 AM »
1. Version tag (Im guessing your reffering to 1.30 in this topic)

2. Conscripts are meant to be weak requiring the command squad to be effective and capping is about the only thing their good at apart from cannon fodder (ntm Analpirat's point)

3. Red banners are medium infantry and are good at their job if you want AT you need tank hunters and the ZIS gun's they arent like other factions where most inf can handle armour and inf they're very specific to what they can engage.

4. Again use Tank hunters and ZIS's dont try to counter their early armour with your own armour especially against PE bad mistake

5. T-34's arent an "I WIN" button support them they wont win 1v1 vs a panther.

And your english is fine btw :P
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 09:55:48 AM by Raider217 »



Offline Zerstörer

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 11:12:11 AM »
Ok first of all, please follow the rules about posting and adding tags to the headline.

This pretty much sound like you're very new to the game and you're having trouble adjusting to the way soviets play

Please have a look some of the latest replays in our Replay section as they may help you understand how to use them better. I can assure you that soviets are anything but UP at the moment. Infact some nerfing is due in the next patch.
You definitely do not need to use all the upgrades, and they're there to provide different teching paths once you get used to them
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Offline Flanker1949

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 01:32:50 PM »
Thank you guys for apply our message so quickly. It looks like we need to practice some more.

By the way, Mr Zerstörer. You said that :"Infact some nerfing is due in the next patch." What does "nerfing" mean? I check it and it is not in the dictionary.

Is that OK if you leak us some inside information about what's the next patch is going to like? Or when is it going to be out? Would the Soivet have their own speech? Because right now they don't. The T-34 is using the Sherman's speech and the T-70 is using the greyhoung's speech. Would Soviet also have the it's own winning and losing pictures? Can we have the Soviet ranks in our profile? And is the bug we mentioned earlier about the purple square machine gun nest icon going to be fixed? Would there be an animation when T-34 broken its own main gun?

Thank a lot for replying us. This forum is so friendly here. We weren't sure if anyone is going to anwser our newbies' stupid questions.

Offline Desert_Fox

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 01:56:19 PM »
Nerfing = Give less power to a unit/faction/ability.

ISU-152 will be nerfed. ;)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 01:59:14 PM by Moonwalker »

Offline Blackbishop

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 08:49:15 PM »
@Flanker1949

Quote
Is that OK if you leak us some inside information about what's the next patch is going to like? Or when is it going to be out?
We don't know yet :).

Quote
Would the Soviet have their own speech? Because right now they don't. The T-34 is using the Sherman's speech and the T-70 is using the greyhoung's speech.
Maybe in the future... if not at least at that time we could remove those speeches from Soviets units.

Quote
Would Soviet also have the it's own winning and losing pictures?
Nope, harcoded bug.

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Can we have the Soviet ranks in our profile?
Nope, this is up to Relic.

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And is the bug we mentioned earlier about the purple square machine gun nest icon going to be fixed?
Yes, we have it in our internal changelog list for the next version.

Quote
Would there be an animation when T-34 broken its own main gun?
Yeah, this will be added in the future, for all soviet vehicles/tanks. Don't know when, but it's planned.
Mors Indecepta

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Offline Flanker1949

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 09:31:53 AM »
Wow!!!
Thank you for anwsering all our questions. This is definely one of the most friendly forum we have been to. And Mr Moonwalker, thank you for the heads up too.
Byt the way? what tool are you guys using to make the mod? I am not a very talented computer person, but we do have a unit in our university specificly teach people how to make game mod. And I know the lectureer. Me and my friends are hoping may be we can make some other mod like Italian force in north African or the Chinese Red Army (maybe not this one since the Chinese Red Army did not fight German in Europe)
We have found a website that is a encyclopedia on World War 2 vehicals:
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/ussr/tanks-light/t-80.asp
Hope it can provide some assistance for you guys in future mod modification.

Almost forgot, may I ask if there is a planing to create Soviet structures in the future patch? Because they are currently using the Americans structures with a new texture.

Thank you guys again. If you guys need any assistance from us, just let us know.

Offline firefox126

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 10:21:32 AM »
yeah i think russia is a bit weak at the start of the game.
yesterday we died cuase of an inf rush....
the conscripts could not hold thos huge army of inf.
Real Russian power
barrel to barrel front to front (no flank post)
one IS2 tank
confirmed 3 kills without dieing
tiger tank (no veteran) status owned
tiger tank (lvl 1 veteran) status owned
king tiger tank (lvl 3 veteran) status owned
Thad all in one 3v3 match
That's real Russian power

Offline BurroDiablo

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 11:01:44 AM »
Byt the way? what tool are you guys using to make the mod? I am not a very talented computer person, but we do have a unit in our university specificly teach people how to make game mod. And I know the lectureer. Me and my friends are hoping may be we can make some other mod like Italian force in north African or the Chinese Red Army (maybe not this one since the Chinese Red Army did not fight German in Europe)

For modding CoH -

3Ds Max 8
Corsix Mod Studio
Object Editor
RGM Importer
Corsix model exporter
Photoshop
Photoshop DDS Plugin

And some other stuff I may have forgotten. I personally use all those ^

Almost forgot, may I ask if there is a planing to create Soviet structures in the future patch? Because they are currently using the Americans structures with a new texture.

Its planned for the future, but right now is not our priority.

Offline Flanker1949

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 01:26:40 PM »
Thank you, Mr BurroDiablo.
And I don't know if this is a bug or not. Sometimes my base stoped or reduced to regenerate ammunition. My supply line isn't broken and my enemies are all regular German army, not the Panzer elite. So they are not supose to have that "scratch the earth" (I don't think I spelled it right) capabilities.

And hi there, firefox126. I totally agree with you. Soviet is weak at the start. But if we somehow hold it to the end, then the Soviet will be almost unstopable, both infantry and Armor. I have tried, there is no chance for someone to stop a full scale Soviet assault. We put the Red Banner trooper with tank hunters, upgrade them with SMGs and MGs, then mix them with T-34 and IS-2 with the support from the Katyusha. The enemies can either die for their country or surrender. :)
Except it is hard for us to hold out in the earlier stage of the game though.

Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 02:14:18 PM »
Advanced Soviet units have a munitions upkeep, like the manpower upkeep of all other factions, that reduces their munitions income as the number of units on the field increases. The panzer elite ability is "scorched earth" which disables a neutral or friendly point and must be repaired to be able to be used again.

Soviets are only slightly weaker than wehrmacht right at the start of the game but have an extremely powerful midgame. Their snipers, strelky and command squad vet are currently much more powerful than anything the wehrmacht player has at that stage. Their late game is on par, with both sides having excellent tanks, infantry and vet. In fact, Soviets probably have the edge in late game too since snipers are so epic.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Offline Flanker1949

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2011, 08:42:02 AM »
Oh, I see. Is there a user's manuel can tell me that which unit will cost me ammo unkeep?
But I think it is a bug as well. This morning when I played it, while no combat have occured, no lost of land and no production, my ammo number have changed itself. I think it have something to do with the fact that I ticked "run progrem in window xp". After I unticked it, it went fine. Plus the aliance AI is stupider and the Axie AI is smarter when I ticked "runs in window xp".

Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 08:49:04 AM »
I believe all the tanks/vehicles (includes katyushas), mortars, AT guns, medic truck and firebase have a munitions upkeep. The exact values should be found in the 1.2 changelog.

There shouldn't be any difference between compatability mode and running it normally.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Offline Flanker1949

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Re: Does anyone think that the Soviet is a bit too weak?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2011, 12:35:25 PM »
That is probably not fair now.
People who play the Soviet have to keep a large amout of troops in the earlier stage since we are weak as you point it out earlier. But in that case we will not be able to have any production of ammo due the ammo upkeep to upgrade out buildings and troops. How can we hold out the middle stage of the game then?