AI Doctrine Usage

[Venoxxis]

Being a EF player from the 1st release on, i always recognized one really annoying problem about soviet AI and the way they use their doctrinal call-ins. I opened a thread like that about a half year ago, but still, nothing has been changed.
I simply wanted to point it out again, because its maybe the worst point of the mod atm.

The problem is, that the AI prefers call in units over usual units, like tanks etc. To name a example: When the AI selected the propaganda strategy it will only spam katyushas, as soon as it can do so. Often, you will face nothing else than katyushas after he can begin to call them in. no tanks anymore and much less infantry. Now, even if you play against a expert, you just need a few armoured units and can crush the enemy, because the AI has nothing else than trucks with rockets.
A experts-AI looses this way all its power, simply because it spends all his manpower for trucks. Same counts for KV-2, these things also get spammed as hell. KV-2 are beasts, but still, its just one kind of units and its easy to crush it with another tactic. The expert should have a varity of units, and being a soviet, a lot of armour.



best regards

[pariah]

What i find particularly annoying is when they use a Company Commander from 1 of the Tales Of Valor campaigns...

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

Played on Cottbus/Jüterbog with a friend yesterday, against two normals bots, they performed pretty good until one had researched KV2, the one other Katyusha. Game went boring and we immediately crushed them because we had no fun anymore.

Same when playing against Germans (who are spamming StuHs, Stormtroopers), PE (Hetzers, Fallschirmjägers), Brits (Priests, Churchills or silly placed gliders) or Americans (Ranger, Airbornes, Calliopes). Seems like AI likes call-ins best and doesn't care about the other units anymore.

Also one thing that I've noticed is that the call-ins are stupidly manouvered into enemy territory, mostly alone, just driving from the map entry point either into no man's land or directly in your defensive lines.

Somewhere I read, that it's a hardcoded problem to solve. Hope this is wrong. If you can care about it, most EF players will be lovin you even more than they do now

[pariah]

They don't use Fallschirmjäger to their full potential, either; They always call them from the off-map reinforcement point, rather than from buildings. But there's also a lot the A.I. doesn't use, like Booby Traps, Scorched Earth, many defensive buildings (particularly British), and they somehow use the Sector Artillery on enemy sectors, and i can't figure out how the fuck they do that...

[Analpirat]

I somewhat have to ask, what do you expect? Have you ever played CoH before EF? The AI is incredibly stupid and repetitive and has been for ages. Besides, I don't think I have ever seen a good AI in any strategy game. Sure, there a perhaps some things that could be tweaked about it but don't expect a revolution. Just play online ,it's just a lot more fun. Sure, stomping some comps on a bridge map is fun every now and then, but I reckon most people wouldn't want a smart AI because then they'd get hammered on the scheldt 

[pariah]

You think fighting A.I.s on a bridge map is fun!? God, they are the worst maps for A.I.s! My allies will often just sit a fucking A-T gun or a tank on the bridge, preventing me from passing! I'm not big on team-killing, but at times like these i don't have much of a choice but to blow the bridge! The A.I. really needs some significant improvements. Which the A.I. mod aims to do...

[Analpirat]

That's why, when I do it, I never play with AI allies.
But anyway, the obvious solution is to play vs humans. Battling the AI in CoH will never be as good or rewarding as playing vs humans, no matter how much you improve it.

[pariah]

Yes, i realize that A.I. will be far inferior to humans for a while now. But the problem is that there are people like me who can't play online, so A.I.s are the best we've got. And it's dreadfully annoying that so much of the experience is left out...

[cephalos]

Yes, i realize that A.I. will be far inferior to humans for a while now. But the problem is that there are people like me who can't play online, so A.I.s are the best we've got. And it's dreadfully annoying that so much of the experience is left out...

+1
and sometimes I find defeating annoying AI far more challenging and satysfying.

[Tico_1990]

To hop onto the bandwagon, the AI generally uses a varied mix of units (up untill they get their rewardunits at least), so far the most I've seen in online games vs. humans is spamming/blobbing single units (mind you, I haven't played online a lot).
Cheers

[Analpirat]

Well if the AI unit mix is more varied then what you've seen online then you must have had some godawful matches. The AI only excels in the mass of the units and the annoying capping orders. Other than that I think it just plays awful.

[Venoxxis]

Its not about the fact, that a human player may play better. Often ppl simply prefer a simply AI match, the reason therefore are quite different. Not everybody has the time to play every day one match online or even more than that, just to name an example. They want it simple and easy: join the game, and join the match.

Played on Cottbus/Jüterbog with a friend yesterday, against two normals bots, they performed pretty good until one had researched KV2, the one other Katyusha. Game went boring and we immediately crushed them because we had no fun anymore.

This is the problem. The games are getting boring this way and are loosing their all challange.

Same when playing against Germans (who are spamming StuHs, Stormtroopers), PE (Hetzers, Fallschirmjägers), Brits (Priests, Churchills or silly placed gliders) or Americans (Ranger, Airbornes, Calliopes). Seems like AI likes call-ins best and doesn't care about the other units anymore.

Yet i gotta state, that i didnt see such problems with relic coh AI. They like their doctrinal units, but they dont build only these. That counts especially for wehrmacht ai, these guys always go for heavy armour in the end. Doctrinal units are still a minor point of their troops. Also same counts for armour doctrine of the US, the like their calliopes, but there is still infantry and tanks around all the time. This is not the case playing against the USSR.
 Correct me if im wrong, but playing against expert AI, exactly that is the case.

[...] If you can care about it, most EF players will be lovin you even more than they do now

Thats correct.



Regards

[Red_Stinger]

Yet i gotta state, that i didnt see such problems with relic coh AI. They like their doctrinal units, but they dont build only these. That counts especially for wehrmacht ai, these guys always go for heavy armour in the end. Doctrinal units are still a minor point of their troops. Also same counts for armour doctrine of the US, the like their calliopes, but there is still infantry and tanks around all the time. This is not the case playing against the USSR.
 Correct me if im wrong, but playing against expert AI, exactly that is the case.

I remember the first day of COH; the Ai wasn't spamming doctrinal unit. I've seen this only in EF.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

Its not about the fact, that a human player may play better. Often ppl simply prefer a simply AI match, the reason therefore are quite different. Not everybody has the time to play every day one match online or even more than that, just to name an example. They want it simple and easy: join the game, and join the match.

Well spoken.

Same when playing against Germans (who are spamming StuHs, Stormtroopers), PE (Hetzers, Fallschirmjägers), Brits (Priests, Churchills or silly placed gliders) or Americans (Ranger, Airbornes, Calliopes). Seems like AI likes call-ins best and doesn't care about the other units anymore.

Yet i gotta state, that i didnt see such problems with relic coh AI. They like their doctrinal units, but they dont build only these. That counts especially for wehrmacht ai, these guys always go for heavy armour in the end. Doctrinal units are still a minor point of their troops. Also same counts for armour doctrine of the US, the like their calliopes, but there is still infantry and tanks around all the time. This is not the case playing against the USSR.
 Correct me if im wrong, but playing against expert AI, exactly that is the case.

It's not that intensive in vanilla, but it is like this. You're right about American and German armor anyway.

[Analpirat]

Come on, the AI never was and never will be a challenge. It always acts the same way. Yes, it might sometimes use different units or abilites, but contrary to a human that doesn't change a thing.It has no strat, it just randomly spams all over the place. It's not like the Terror AI plays fundamentally different to a Blitz AI. And as for the time argument, games vs Humans are generally shorter than games vs AI. Just fire up 1vs1 Automatch and you're set(Not referring to EF atm). In fact, I think most compstompers are more afraid of a challenge than looking for one.