Eastern Front 1.30 Patch

[IJoe]

Thanks IJoe for the reply. Yes the soviets are quite balanced now, and you can grab the commies ball in the beginning, but my mate is damn good player, BUT I could turn sometimes the battle with relic factions. Maybe I dig up with strategies forum. When I play with the soviets, there are a lots of lots of units, that when I figured out what counter I'd like to use, my mate is already made a choice. And when a PE Panthers come in, or in the last match the King Tiger (at the last time, the HQ was deastroyed), there were 3 SU100 and took down the KT for about 4 seconds. If I recall I did screwed up the build order, but the KT is the best Jerry tank in the game, so I was a bit upset.

I totally agree, that flexibility is the highest edge of the sov faction.
However, it isn't new (I mind PE vetting system here), nor is it unbearable to the opponent. Just a unique faction feature, nothing more, IMO. 

[Analpirat]

I don't think the Wehr late-game advantage counts as much vs the soviets as it'd do vs the US as the soviet late game is really strong. That is partly compensated by their weak early game though Wehr is weak in the early game too. But so far I haven't had enough games with the soviets in 1vs1 (or even 2vs2) to comment on that. I just think it's hard to proclaim them balanced or imbalanced as long as there isn't a strong playerbase to be able to gather any real evidence.
From the little experience that I've gained it seems to me that the PE is a better fit to fight the soviets than Wehr.

[Zerstörer]

I think that TheReaper does have a point with regards to the Soviets having more unit options than WH/PE, although not by much.
Eg. WH has 3 Halftrack variants, 2 puma variants, 1 bike,1 Swimwagon, 2 Stug variants, Pz4/5/6, Ostwind, Geschutzwagon and KT- That's 15 vehicles
Soviets have 12 vehicles atm.

With the Soviets, if you wanted, you could strip down the faction admittedly without too much of a balance impact.

However, there is also the following thing to consider.

A proper EF game should really be between Soviets and Axis. In a 2v2/3v3/4v4, the Axis side has alot of combinations (and will have even more with Ostheer) cause you have 2 factions with doctrines vs 1. By having the amount of units the soviets have, you can somewhat balance that as they have more options than a regular faction.

It is a really interesting point you've raised and I believe it merits more discussion and thought for it.

[Analpirat]

Commenting on that I think it isn't really correct to say the soviets can build 6 infantry units in their barracks. First of all, they all fill the same roles, some are just better than others. And the upgrades are just that, upgrades. Upgraded Guards are simply more powerful Guards, it's not like it brings revolutions in their tactical abilities. (Though I will concede that the non-suppressability makes things a little different). Same goes for the tank Hall, it's just an upgraded vehicle. Taking that into account I'd say 25 "units" is way overblown as it suggests a versatility that isn't there in context of different tactical abilities but merely in pricing or cost/power ratio.

[Ressy]

17lbers are extremely good against the KT, whether it be the emplacement, fireflies, comets or achilles'. Who knew 2 or 3 dedicated anti-tank platforms would do well against a tank?

LOL just lol yes.
imagine tank destroyers destroying tanks?

It was more that 2 Achilles in hull-down w/ brit over-repair and command tank actually beat a jagdtiger (also a tank destroyer) in a straight up match. Jagdtiger did manage to kill one of them.

Considering the relative resources put into the different sides, and the limit of 1 ever on Jagdtigers, it felt the achilles were a tad much.

I should mention that the main complaint is from my friend, who loves big big tanks, whereas I prefer large groups of weak tanks.

ahh tank destroyers vs each other is a different ball game. i can imagine the difficulties taking on the achilles in hull-down and overreapair, but i wonder what led up to this event. do you have the replay?
could post it if there is a balance problem folks will be able to see.

No replay, it was me and a friend doing unit tests to see how good the new brit stuff was.
Setup was the jagdtiger rolling straight into the M10's, and then them all sitting still and potshotting each other. He did roll the jagd out before it got smashed, after killing one M10, but I could have canceled hull down and chased it fairly easily.
In a mobile battle the M10's may not have the hull down bonuses, but they do have turrets, giving them the advantage over german tank destroyers in a maneuver battle.

Also, firing at the jagd's front armor not one shot ever pinged, without using AP shells ability. If the heaviest germal armor is 100% penetrated already, what's the point of an ability to increase penetration?

[Blackbishop]

[...]
No replay, it was me and a friend doing unit tests to see how good the new brit stuff was.
Setup was the jagdtiger rolling straight into the M10's, and then them all sitting still and potshotting each other. He did roll the jagd out before it got smashed, after killing one M10, but I could have canceled hull down and chased it fairly easily.
In a mobile battle the M10's may not have the hull down bonuses, but they do have turrets, giving them the advantage over german tank destroyers in a maneuver battle.

Also, firing at the jagd's front armor not one shot ever pinged, without using AP shells ability. If the heaviest germal armor is 100% penetrated already, what's the point of an ability to increase penetration?

Well, a replay would really help ...

[Zerstörer]

They carry a 17pdr, like a firefly/17pdr nest....how many times have you seen them bounce off before?

AP rounds don't just grant penetration bonus, they grand damage bonus. At 350 hpts the M10 is destroyed by any heavy tank or TD in 3 shots and fires less frequent than the german tanks, meaning in straight up matchup it gets to fire 2 shots before receiving the 3rd fatal one-So apart from some really bad luck of bad use, it will always die to a german tank

[TheReaper]

I made some ideas for the faction and doctrines and want to make suggestion. I haven't much time to work out every aspects, but in the beginning I felt to change for this:

•   T2:
o   Tank Hunter training; with it, Conscripts can now can have 1x PTRD-40 AT Rifle. Can be upgunned with 1 new man with a PTRD-40 AT Rifle.
o   ZiS2 AT Gun (76mm)

•   Tank Hall.
o   Light Tankovy Upgrade:
   T-70 Light Tank (overdrive ability)
   T-90 AA/AI Light Tank
o   Heavy Tankovy Upgrade:
   T-34/76 Medium Tank

Doctrines are, as they are called 'Strategies'.
•   Propaganda Strategy;
o   Left Side; Political Warfare
   Impenetrable Defense; Can now build Maxim MG Dugouts.
   Industrial Might – t34s can now upgraded to 34/85.
   The Red Tide! For a short time all Infantry deaths respawn at HQ.
o   Right side; High command support
   Stalin organ- Now can call in BM-13 Katyusha Rocket Lauchers.
   God Of War - All available artillery pieces are now redirected to your sector. This will allow you unleash hell upon a large area of the map.
   Can call in IS2 Stalin tanks.
•   Urban Combat Strategy
o   Left Side; Street Warfare
   Close Combat - Ingenery can be upgraded with Dual ROKS-3 Flame-throwers.
   Not one step back! Makes all Troops in the sector immobile, but Higher health.
   Steamroller - Call in a KV-2 Heavy Tank.
o   Right Side; Guerilla Warfare
   Partisans - Can now infiltrate a Partisan Troop.
   Sabotage - Partisans can now plant TNT on points.
   Sniper elite training – snipers are now can cloack without cover, Gains Suppress Ability
•   Breakthrough Strategy
o   Left Side; Combined Arms Warfare
   Tank Hunters – Can now call in SU-85 Assault gun, can be upgraded to the SU-100
   Tank Riders; T-34's can now mount Infantry.
   IL-2 Sturmovik - Call in a Squadron of IL-2 Sturmovik Tank Hunters.
•   
o   Right Side; Advanced Tank Warfare
   Mechanics; Can now call in Trained Mechanics
   Lend-Lease; Can now call in a Lend-Lease Sherman 76mm.
   Zverbody; Can now call in a ISU-152 Tank Hunter.



If you upset, that I took out the /87 upgrade and the IS-2s, you must remember, that you can upgrade youre Zis AT gun. I changed the doctrines, and I think they makes sense. It's just suggestions, and I wrote this for discussions. I also thiks, that the commies are quite balanced out.
Post Merge: February 01, 2011, 11:23:45 AM

However, there is also the following thing to consider.

A proper EF game should really be between Soviets and Axis. In a 2v2/3v3/4v4, the Axis side has alot of combinations (and will have even more with Ostheer) cause you have 2 factions with doctrines vs 1. By having the amount of units the soviets have, you can somewhat balance that as they have more options than a regular faction.

It is a really interesting point you've raised and I believe it merits more discussion and thought for it.

I agree with you, but that's the whole point of the doctrines. You can do combined arms wit the Yenkies when you're teammate chooses different doctrines. With commies there is no point choosin different doctrines but urban combat, where you call in the sniper ace, and build SU100-s.

[Analpirat]

I think there are some points that merit discussion while I think overall some of the changes are too drastic. For example the removal of the non-doctrinal T34/85 upgrade. Without it,the T34 won't be able to compete with the late game tanks of the other factions. Furthermore Propaganda would then have both the T34/85 and the IS2 and the Kathyushas. However I could imagine a doctinal IS2 call-in as the soviets can do without it if they're left the T34/85 and the Su-100. Perhaps one could have the Guards come as doctrinal call-in elite infantry as well? I also find your idea interesting to remove tank hunters and give the normal infantry the option to upgrade with anti-tank rifles.

[Paciat]

firing at the jagd's front armor not one shot ever pinged, without using AP shells ability. If the heaviest germal armor is 100% penetrated already, what's the point of an ability to increase penetration?

British AP shots increases accuracy and dmg as well. M10 gets similar bonuses from vet.

[dbkblk]

This is just a post to really thanks you for this mod ! You're making a wonderful mod !

[Skykid93]

Greetings, long time no see ... I am stunned by the fact that you fixed the recrewing bug, bravo! 

[Rain]

I just want to make a sugestion...as you all know in real life the soviet snipers were not only men but women too...can´t you guys insert some girls in the game?? that would be awesome!! and now the only faction that is left behind is the french and the japanese...it would be just great if you guys manage to insert this last 2 factions on the game
Great job with the mod and please don´t stop the magic now
Big hugs to all 

[Desert_Fox]

and now the only faction that is left behind is the french and the japanese...it would be just great if you guys manage to insert this last 2 factions on the game

I Think women snipers are already suggested but I don't remember the answer.

French? On the Eastern Front? 

Japanese are already created by another Mod Team:

Here: http://www.moddb.com/mods/pacific-thunder

[Rain]

I´m not saying that EF should have the French faction  i´m only saying that the only factions that are not in game right now are the french and the japanese  and it was awesome if someone could insert them in game...that way we would have 4 against 4 factions in game