Reward Unit ideas for Wehr, PE and US

[Analpirat]

Hi there, have been lurking for some time but decided to throw my ideas out there for some reward units for 3 of the original factions to spice the game up a bit.
Please note that I'm in no way, shape or form suggesting that these ideas are any more than ideas. I didn't bother with going into details like exact cost or stats since that is a balance decision. I'll also spare you of any history arguments since these are just irrelevant apart from avoiding grossly ahistorical units. I focused on the role of the units and whether or not it'd offer something over the unit it replaces.

Light Infantry Howitzer in an indirect fire role
e.g. 7,5cm Gebirgsgeschütz 36 (or a similar caliber Infantry Gun) or 75mm Pack Howitzer M1
could replace: Nebelwerfer(Wehr) / M2 Howitzer(US)
Outline: With a range greater than that of a mortar and lower than that of the bigger, real howitzers these units could be used as replacements for the nebelwerfer and the m2 howitzer. How could that work out? Well, compared to the Nebelwerfer a light howitzer could offer slightly longer range and better accuracy (a tighter grouping of the rounds, i.e. less spread) at maximum range, compared to the big spread of the nebelwerfer. It could also have slightly better effects vs armor. Compared to the M2 Howitzer, the M1 could provide a mobile, pushed artillery platform (remember back in ~1.4 when the M2 was movable?) that is (perhaps) more affordable than the M2 with a lower popcap. Shell effects could be (for both sides) that of the Shermans 75mm gun, and a “salvo” could be, for example, 6 shots in rapid succession with a lower cooldown than that of the heavier guns(would have to be determined by balancers).

Light Infantry Howitzer in a direct fire role
could replace: Paradropped AT Gun (US) , one could also consider replacing Wehr and US’s AT guns
Outline: Well, again the same guns, but this time employed as replacements for direct fire units. As such, they should also direct-fire, so basically they would give you the same effects as, say the PzIV or the Shermans Main Gun give you. That means they’d offer improved AI capability at the expense of AT capability.
I think this could work best if it was only the M1 howitzer that replaced the paradropped AT Gun, my reasoning being that the Airborne player still has access to the original AT gun if he desperately needs it. Thusly, the Airborne player would have a gun that could provide him with some AI and AT support while not excelling at either.

US .30cal Replacement
e.g. A Fireteam equipped with BARs or some sort of LMG // .50cal
could replace: .30 cal
Outline:
Fireteam: A more mobile solution to the HMG. Basically, it could be a small squad equipped entirely with BARs or a newly created LMG (M1919 perhaps?) that could only fire when standing still and providing less or equal dmg output to the .30cal and less suppression (or have a suppression buff for muni like a BARed rifle squad. Also, they’d lose the AT capability). The advantage would be that it could displace easier and advance and flank with the rifles, benefitting a more offensive playstyle.

.50cal: Would work just like any other HMG, compared to the .30 cal it’d offer increased anti vehicle performance and maybe higher damage vs infantry at the expense of suppression.(and maybe being more expensive?)

Pzkpfw II (for Wehr)
Could replace: Puma
Outline: Well yeah, it wouldn’t be fundamentally different or anything , but since you’re making one for the Ostheer anyways you could consider offering a Pz II replacement for the Puma. It could give Wehr a beefier(more hp) AI platform that is less mobile (at least on roads, could have increased cross country performance)

Spotter Replacement (for Wehr)
Could replace: Officer
Outline: Well, the Spotter/Forward Observer could be a guy with simple Binocs or a Scherenfernrohr that would have to set up like an MG or an AT Gun. When set up, he’d provide a cone of increased visibility that would benefit snipers, AT Guns, Geschützwagen, etc. He could also have (maybe as vet bonus) an aura providing units near him with a slight damage or range increase or something (That’d be up to balancers to decide).

Pantherturm (for Wehr)
Could replace: 88 AT gun
Outline: Well, it’d offer an At Platform that would have less AT capability but more survivability, especially against snipers. Furthermore, like a bunker, there’d be no risk of enemy capture. Could also be a bit cheaper and less pop intensive. I think it would fit well in the defensive doctrines playstyle.

A Tank for the PE
e.g. Pz 38(t) or Pzkpfw III
Could replace: Panzer IV/Somua
Outline: Well, I don’t know if this would change the Pe’s playstyle too much. However, it’d be nice if PE had the option of having a genuine tank (with, you know, a turret) that could take on both infantry and armor. It wouldn’t have to be anything special, it’d picture it as being fast, not very tough (mediocre armor and health, sub Pzkpfw IV and Sherman) and not very Hard hitting. (Perhaps in Puma with 50mm league (which is lacking in AI capability but oh well))

A Tank for PE II
e.g. Tiger
could replace: Panther battlegroup
Outline: Well yeah, a single Tiger vs 2 Panthers. Benefits: More survivability, better AI capability (compared to a single panther ofc). Just something that isn’t as focused on AT work as the Panthers are.

Sdkfz 251 as Infantry carrier(for PE)
Could replace: Bergetiger
Outline: Well, the Sdkfz 251 is already in game, fully voiced, so there’s that. Furthermore, no one uses the Bergetiger anyways. The 251 could provide the PE with a more survivable (better armor class, more hp) Infantry carrier in the late game where the 250’s can be quickly dispatched. It could also offer 2 MG gunners (of the 250 gunners ilk) vs the 250s single one. Additionally, one could consider that more PGrens could shoot out of the Vehicle, given that it’s larger. It could also carry more Pgrens, But these options would have to be balanced anyway.

M5A1 Stuart (for US)
Could replace: M8 Scout Car
Outline: Pretty much the same deal as with the PzII for Wehr. Would provide the USA with a more survivable, yet slower Scout Unit without making any drastic changes. One could also consider having an upgrade option to M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage once the Upgun Upgrade in the Tank Depot is unlocked, with would prolong the M5’s usability.

[Raider217]

C'mon the the exact same topic is on the next page no sense in openeing this... oh well

Light Infantry Howitzer in a direct fire role
could replace: Paradropped AT Gun (US) , one could also consider replacing Wehr and US’s AT guns

-Artillery is dominantly infantry doctrines thing although it would be interesting to get light artillery through paradrops.

US .30cal Replacement
e.g. A Fireteam equipped with BARs or some sort of LMG // .50cal
could replace: .30 cal

-No point Rifleman have BAR upgrade and you have LMG team what more do you want

Pzkpfw II (for Wehr)
Could replace: Puma

-Possibly in the upcoming Ostheer thus not appealing

Spotter Replacement (for Wehr)
Could replace: Officer

-Snipers or other large sighted units are meant to be the spotters for Artillery and vehicles no reason to add another unit with that as its primary function

A Tank for PE II
e.g. Tiger
could replace: Panther battlegroup

-Tiger is too powerful to be a non doctrinal call-in

Sdkfz 251 as Infantry carrier(for PE)
Could replace: Bergetiger

-Youre really gonna have to come up with better reasoning the Bergetiger is a useful repair unit as it doesnt have the same combat negatives as engineers and thus repairs quickly even whilst under fire. Aslso why do you want to clone a unit makes the game stale. Ntm PE already have a transport unit :S

M5A1 Stuart (for US)
Could replace: M8 Scout Car

-Already has a reward unit cant have two. Yet again cloned unit = stale game

Added note: Welcome to the forums

[cephalos]

1. You want to replace essential AT unit ( 50mm Pak) with Anti-Infantry cannon... Not wise... Nebelwerfer is often last way to deal with dugged allies, I guess it won't be replaced often.
2. .50 cal MG would be great as an emplacement.
3. @Raider217 +1
4. actually I like leutnant Gottlieb - he can speed up many things...
5. One Tiger for both factions is far enough. I'd rather have Tiger Ace for Terror Doc though
6. @Raider217
7. Stuart - isn't this brit T2 light tank??

[Analpirat]

I suggest you reread the suggestions more carefully. As I said, my primary aim was to implement a light howitzer in an indirect fire role(read:artillery), a direct fire howitzer was just an afterthought and would not count as artillery by CoHs standards(although I also made it clear that it'd only provide anything for airborne since they'd also have the regular ATG from the motorpool)
Regarding the Sdkfz 251 I think I provided far more of an argument than the Bergetiger being underused: It is a more resilient and powerful infantry carrier than the 250 which can suffer in the late game due to the abundance of AT.
Regarding the Stuart: It isn't a pet suggestion of mine,really. But it isn't any more of a clone than the T17 is and contrary to the latter it was indeed a major scouting asset. So I'll confess, I somewhat proposed it due to historical reasons  .

Edited due to an afterthought. Regarding the whole clone issue: Isn't that what reward units are all about? They are mostly just differing in model, but not in role or Performance. If they'd differed drastically in the performance or role sector you have a shitload of balance problems, see the Kangaroo. I suppose Reward Units should be a matter of preference. So if someone wanted an M8 that is slower but tougher, he could choose the Stuart, and so on.

[GodlikeDennis]

-Youre really gonna have to come up with better reasoning the Bergetiger is a useful repair unit as it doesnt have the same combat negatives as engineers and thus repairs quickly even whilst under fire.

I'd just like to point out this is wrong. The berge takes triple damage whilst repairing something. That's a pretty nonsensical replacement unit though.

[Paciat]

-Youre really gonna have to come up with better reasoning the Bergetiger is a useful repair unit as it doesnt have the same combat negatives as engineers and thus repairs quickly even whilst under fire.

I'd just like to point out this is wrong. The berge takes triple damage whilst repairing something. That's a pretty nonsensical replacement unit though.

+1
3 Firefly shots is all you need too kill a repairing Bergetiger.
Youre shells must just bounced off ist armor. But even then it would take 15%*3=45% of normal dmg (normal - when the shell penetrates).

[Analpirat]

Well, in light of the recent update my Infantry Howitzer suggestion doesn't seem all that original anymore ;-)

But still, what about the Pantherturm and a flimsy battle tank for PE?
Or how about a M24 replacement for one of the US's tank depot units?

[neosdark]

Hmm an M24 Chaffee? Well I'm not sure what u plan to replace with it. The only plausible replacement can be the Croc Sherman (at least in the Tank Depot), but it would be uttterly useless at this point in the game. The M24 had less armor than an M10, the same 75mm gun as the un-upgunned M4, and is useless as anything other than a recon tank. In that case it should replace the M8, but since that would be useless since the Greyhound is already there for that.

A Pantherturm would be nice as a substitute for the 88. It sounds like a very good substitute, with proper balancing.

[Analpirat]

Concerning the M24, I think its usefulness depends on its implementation. As a M8 replacement I feel it could only be overpowered since it just offers so much more than a M8. However, as a replacement for the Croc or the M10 I think it wouldn't need to be as flimsy as it might have been in reality. Say you have a little tank with the firepower of the 75mm Sherman, possibilty to upgrade with .50 cal, speed and survivability of M10 (perhaps a little more hp?) and price wise in the ball park of the M10. What's not to like? It could be sort of a mini-Sherman,a fun little unit thats great vs infantry and light vehicles.

But I agree with you in that I wouldn't consider it a necessity.