[1.23] Soviets on defence.

[Ltevanlee]

When ever I play as the soviets on a defensive play-style I always seem to get overrun in the early game (even on Vire or Lyon). I know the quality of the soviet infantry isn't very good at the beginning of the game, but I'm swamped VERY early (1:30-3:00), so making the soviet infantry more effective in the early game might help.

[Venoxxis]

[...] I know the quality of the soviet infantry isn't very good [...]

quantity over quality!
You can build masses with the soviets, even pretty good at low resources. Very important are especially the seemingly useless conscripts. Teaming them up with the command squad rocks really hard.

Regards

[Seeme]

I use them as deception. Put 2 Conscripts together and make the enemy find them, they think you will attack there. Its just all those troops.

[cephalos]

Sometimes I have feeling that Soviets were designed to play fast games, which I hate sooo much. It's really annoying.

[Ltevanlee]

[...] I know the quality of the soviet infantry isn't very good [...]

quantity over quality!
You can build masses with the soviets, even pretty good at low resources. Very important are especially the seemingly useless conscripts. Teaming them up with the command squad rocks really hard.

Regards

I know that, but remember Vire and Lyon are all about the bridges Ingery just die so quickly, that don't last 2 seconds against the pios+volkies that usually attack. I try to get strelky very early but I just run out of resources.

[Chancellor]

Don't play bridge maps, son.  L2P!   

[Desert_Fox]

Don't play bridge maps, son.

+1 

Play in the right way 

[Versedhorison]

chokepoint maps are fun but noob maps. The open maps are where its at for the real gamers.

[Headlock]

I beg to differ, re Lyon!

Lyon has 3 choke points, but they are also weaknesses - any defense relying on them is very vulnerable, as once and enemy gets past one bridge the entire line is in danger.

I love that tension- push/pull, break the line then pour through.

Describing them as a noob map is inaccurate - noobs dont know how to play on them, but think that its easy - "block the bridge = win, yay".

If anything, a bridge map shows how good a person is - crossing a river and exploiting the bridgehead is a damn hard thing to do.

Sitting on your ass, on the other hand...

HDK

[GodlikeDennis]

Bridge maps don't have to be noob. They become that way when noobs think they can win by blowing up 2 of the bridges and TT/wire the middle indestructable area. I agree with headlock that it can have an element of strategic thinking that doesn't appear in normal games, like making a bridgehead and keeping it. However, there is much less demand on micro and macro since it's usually just spamming your most powerful tank and plowing over. Arty is usually popular since there is no fear of counter attack making games frustrating. Teamwork is important though and some fun can be had on these maps if you just need to chill out and not think for a couple hours. Good to relax with a beer, talking to your mates on TS, while playing vire river valley.

[Ltevanlee]

Bridge maps don't have to be noob. They become that way when noobs think they can win by blowing up 2 of the bridges and TT/wire the middle indestructable area. I agree with headlock that it can have an element of strategic thinking that doesn't appear in normal games, like making a bridgehead and keeping it. However, there is much less demand on micro and macro since it's usually just spamming your most powerful tank and plowing over. Arty is usually popular since there is no fear of counter attack making games frustrating. Teamwork is important though and some fun can be had on these maps if you just need to chill out and not think for a couple hours. Good to relax with a beer, talking to your mates on TS, while playing vire river valley.

+1 I usually face the n00b. He sits his side of the bridge while he waits for his resources to back up to get panther spam. When hes not watching, few T-34s and guards go across can really f*** up their resources. By then I got 5 T-34/84s to back 'em up and its over.


                                                     

[Chancellor]

I like Lyon because of its cool city setting; no other map really has that.  Aside from that, I do think its noob because it simply favors noobs who sit on their asses.  The key point is that it invalidates skill level.  A pro player can still lose to a noob who blows the bridges in time and camps for tanks.  After that its all about crossing the chokepoint by cramming units through / arty spam, and it really invalidates micro.

Bridge maps have a set of strategy involved that other maps don't have yes.  Are they maps to learn to really play / justify balance discussions with?  Hell no.

[GodlikeDennis]

Lyon is also very large, making maneuvering possible and has the fuel island for added strategic value. I wasn't really aware this was a balance discussion anyway, he seems to be a compstomper asking for strat advice.

A good player will never lose to a noob, even on bridge maps. Panther spam will be met by mines, stickies, AT guns and tanks of their own while the noob will likely throw everything into their attack and be unprepared for the counter.

Good matches can be had on bridge maps when all the players are good and would rather attempt rushes during early and mid game to end it early rather than delay for a pointless arty fest. Nonetheless, bridge maps are far LESS prone to having a good game due to noobs liking the turtle gamestyle.

[Griptonix]

Compstomping is awesome on maps with hard chokepoints, it all changes when someone who can actually plan ahead replaces the AI though. I don't think its a necesarrily noobish strategy to wait for good late game units, it actually takes a bit of skill to fend off attacks and counter attacks since some factions aren't as gifted in breaking defensive lines

[Versedhorison]

Compstomping is awesome on maps with hard chokepoints, it all changes when someone who can actually plan ahead replaces the AI though. I don't think its a necesarrily noobish strategy to wait for good late game units, it actually takes a bit of skill to fend off attacks and counter attacks since some factions aren't as gifted in breaking defensive lines

except when the retarded AI pathing clogs up the chockpoints with their vehichles. Hochwald gap is a good example of this.